This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.
Disclaimer: I did not write this. Just posting it for a friend of mine who wishes to remain anonymous.
All names have been changed to protect the identities of the original persons.
Every once in a while, I get it in my head that I can help some group that is known for being the Snooki the crop. They just need a little guidance,” I tell myself, nodding resolutely. “A little nudge in the right direction”.
It all started out when I offered to be an editor for Hadena. Their test was a Toaru script, and since I had no idea what was happening, I just re-wrote every line to whatever I wanted. I passed with flying colors. Being in a group where I have the freedom to experiment in my edits would be so sugoi!
I announced to my group the good news, and promptly received a PM from an editor:
[20:12] Booby: trust me you don’t want to work with hadena
[20:12] Daphy: why not
[20:12] Booby: even without marashi, it’s a big bag of deluded
[20:12] Booby: ( ¬‿¬)
I totally ignored him.
[20:12] Daphy: it would be hilarious to start releasing a-quality episodes
–
The acting leader, bragoon and I decided that I’d start out editing an episode of Recorder to Randoseru.
[21:34] Daphy: why don’t you have a staff room
[21:34] Daphy: let me in already
[21:35] bragoon: who said we don’t have staff channel
[21:35] bragoon: we have a one
[21:35] bragoon: but
[21:35] bragoon: the rule is that person she/he stick with us for three releases then
[21:35] bragoon: we will let him
[21:36] Daphy: that’s discouraging :/
[21:36] bragoon: no offense but i had enough from passers by
[21:36] bragoon: you know
[21:36] bragoon: i got many guys in the
[21:36] bragoon: past three months
[21:36] bragoon: saying yea we will be on your staff then disappear
[21:37] Daphy: that’s normal
[21:38] bragoon: yea so marashi
[21:38] bragoon: did lay down this rule
[21:39] bragoon: to never let anyone in the staff channel unless they do at least 3 project
[21:39] bragoon: releases*
[21:40] bragoon: so i hope you understand
[21:40] bragoon: or do you find it odd?
[21:40] Daphy: it’s odd
Beginning a member-group relationship by inherently distrusting your recruits from the onset. That’s new.
[21:46] bragoon: WHAT the heck … did you see this http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=torrentinfo&tid=276648
[21:46] Daphy: btw don’t add errors to my edit
[21:46] bragoon: hmm i won’t i will just copy paste
[21:46] bragoon: what makes you think i will do
[21:47] Daphy: i dunno
The script I got wasn’t timed, and it had no font (font is important so I can watch out for three-liners), but it was more or less editable.
First, great Zeus sent me a messenger. Then, he sent me two omens. I failed to heed his warnings thrice.
–
A few days later, I was invited to edit an episode of Brave 10. A show with hot guys fighting each other in the wilderness? How could I resist?
By the time I got to the pad, the episode script looked like toasted diarrhea with cheese. TL note/Edit/QC brackets were everywhere, and the lines were infested with the colors of a thousand different edits. I shook my fists at the gods.
I got marashi, the TL, to get everyone who was adding errors to the script off the pad, and once we cleared out the ten thousand brackets of hell, we found a diamond in the rough underneath. His script was perfectly editable. Mika-chama and Naze (the only two competant QCs available) were left to check my edit. Finally, I started editing at the pace that marashi was translating. Sure, there’d be some errors, but fuck you. Hell yeah. We were on a roll. We’d be done, any minute now.
Somehow, the pad with only 5 people on it got leaked and raided by Commie, but nothing they could do to the script would be anywhere near as bad as what was coming.
Ana-chan came. And he came all over the script, with a spewing vengeance. He systematically began to arbitrarily re-arrange all the sentences, turning our “not too shabby” script to a “toasted hobo vomit” script. I shivered as I heard all of the innocent words and grammars of the script howl in bloody agony, as Ana-chan systematically massacred them all:
I sighed as I watched Ana-chan (light green) and his minion Kayate (the lighter turquoise) systematically go through and rape every single line of our finalized script. English was massacred for the sake of Engrish. Logical sentences were thrown off a cliff to favor of incomprehensible randomness. Random prepositions were added to the ends of sentences. Capitalizations were stationed after commas. Ellipses were everywhere. Spaces between words were deleted. If there were any real mistakes, they were ignored in favor of adding random things like apostrophes. It was ugly.
I don’t even—
“Don’t let people who can’t speak English touch the script after Edit!” I screamed into the staff channel “Let them make TLC notes somewhere else, so someone who knows English can add them!”.
“Ur da 1 hoo can’t speek Ingrish!” Ana-chan, the grammar troll, shot back, breathing heavily as he slaughtered more innocent grammars, speeding up and smirking as he did so.
[00:40] Daphy: >You’re lacking commitment!
[00:40] TheDey: please do not prevoke others by awnsering them back
[00:41] Daphy: >He’s even making this much of a debt.
[00:41] %Ana-chan: okay
[00:41] Daphy: >Climbing cliffs like this…
[00:41] %Ana-chan: But funny how she doesn’t come up with better phrasing
[00:41] Daphy: ya its not like i did that for every other line in the script
[00:42] Daphy: that would be silly
Somewhere in between all this, I left because bragoon put the staff channel on +m and started de-voicing people:
[23:55] bragoon: just to clear things, crouton 1st language is arabic and he claims to the best editor thats why I didn’t like his ego
[23:56] Daphy: deal with it
[23:56] bragoon: I apologize for any inconvience
[23:56] Daphy: worry about the people who are destroying your group
[23:56] Daphy: not the cocky people
I came back to find Ana-chan bent over a noun, vigorously thrusting and pumping away. “For the love of Hera, save the script! Stop him!” I shouted at bragoon.
[01:12] bragoon: Daphy…
[01:12] bragoon: if I not allowin them to touch the script then how are they gonna do TLC
[01:12] Daphy: your TLC sucks at japanese
[01:13] Daphy: he is not qualified to TLC.
[01:13] Daphy: he adds errors.
[01:13] Daphy: you never tested him.
[01:13] Daphy: your TLC does not know japanese or english.
[01:14] bragoon: well see their works
Oh, I had seen their works. I had seen their works well. The script now looked like marinated cow regurgitation.
[01:14] Daphy: i did
[01:14] Daphy: i watched them change my script and add errors.
[0
1:14] Daphy: they are incompetent.
[01:14] Daphy: have fun
[01:14] Daphy: bye
[01:14] bragoon: if you don;t like me then how am I supposed to
[01:14] bragoon: work with you
[01:14] bragoon: it was your first work with them
Um, dude. Take a hint. I rage-quitted and stuff. That implies our interaction is to… you know, end. Sticking around is sorta… awkward. I know it’s PM, but at least pretend that one of us stormed out and left a dramatic flurry of wind behind us.
[01:14] Daphy: that’s why i quit, because you’re stupid
[01:14] Daphy: you don’t know how to tell between quality and shit
[01:15] Daphy: that’s why your group has an F
[01:15] Daphy: you let people change my perfect script you idiot
[01:15] bragoon: funny thing, because 8thsin thinks otherwise
Err, wait. What?
[01:53] bragoon: So what do you want me to do for you so we can make up again
[01:54] Daphy: fire ana-chan and kayate
Hell yeah! Maybe we can compromise. If he’s STILL messaging me, then he must have realized—
[01:55] bragoon: here is the thing… How about I pay you somethign with 20$ and you let it slide
[01:55] bragoon: as an apology gift
Wait, what? He’d rather buy off my compliance than fire the people who are killing his group?
Every once in a while, I get it in my head that I can help some group that is known for being the Snooki the crop. Every once in a while, I’m wrong as fuck.
Sup Sapphy.
Y u so butthurt?
I think it’s because you even made this much of a debt.
I lost it.
Well played.
Amazing comment.
Great cross-counter
ummm, cuz you suck?
there is no perfect human
My condolences.
Hadena pays out better than Fileserve ever did!
[01:55] bragoon: here is the thing… How about I pay you somethign with 20$ and you let it slide
[01:55] bragoon: as an apology gift
This sounds like a great deal. You get $20 and nothing changes in the world.
Yeah, but see… THIS is why we can’t have nice things. People wind up with the (mostly) mistaken impression that money can excuse a lot of stupidity. Sure, money helps, but it doesn’t necessarily guarantee good results.
I like how your friend things took things completely out of context there. Like the fact I had barely touched the script when that screenshot was taken.
Tell your friends this whole posts speaks volumes about him, or should I say her?
>I like how your friend things took things completely out of context
>how your friend things took things
way to prove the point of this article
great job :)
A lot of people seem to be anonymously helping Hadena lately…
(including myself)
I offerd my help, too. But marashi knew I am a slowpoke…
I’ve noticed that Hadena’s highschool DxD is of very good quality – translation wise. Is that your work?
I only agreed to do one episode (that being Brave 10 episode 1, for which I’ll fully admit I turned in a low-quality draft since I wasn’t that interested in the show).
So you’re the reason behind 8th’s A-. (And the shit editors are the reason behind Sage’s D+.)
I though it was a joke, but my doubt was gone after watching one episode of Inu Boku. I think I will especially pick your releases from now on!
A group can change completely with new members joining and showing them a better way to work. I’ve been in one of such groups of receiving helps.
How kind of you in helping Hadena!
All of a sudden, I feel dirty for watching that one Hadena release of the Toradora OVA.
I mean, I felt dirty before, but now it’s just disgusting.
erm the toradora OVA didn’t have this conflict it was release without trouble
>How about I pay you somethign with 20$ and you let it slide
>as an apology gift
Throw in a blowjob, and I would probably take it bro.
>8thsin thinks otherwise
You paid him; didn’t you? DIDN’T YOU?
Yeah. But then they failed to pay me the following week so I reduced their grade from A- to B+.
In all seriousness, my grading scheme needs a major overhaul because it’s disproportionately weighed towards accuracy right now. Someone fluent in Japanese but has crappy English can score in B-range right now, and that’s what happened with Hadena :(
Isn’t that alright though? Please don’t become a grammar nazi in your ratings -_-
I’m not qualified to comment on grammar. That’s why I link here.
I think things like nuance and flow are also in the domain of translation though, and just as important in understanding of the story. My current grading system just doesn’t reflect that very much (unless you actually read the comments).
The omission of the word “to” is -barely- British English vernacular. Don’t exaggerate. I’ve spoken to several people from US and Canada, and they have never called me up on the lack of the word “to”. It’s not “ridiculous”. Again, don’t exaggerate.
The way you’re reacting to the word is besides the main point: grammar vs colloquialism.
They probably just assumed you left it out by mistake. You made a few other errors in your other posts (e.g. ‘clustered’ instead of ‘cluttered’) but I didn’t care enough to nitpick them.
Like I said, I have never seen that phrasing used either in real life or online, and I would be careful about using colloquialisms (if you want to call it that) which look like a grammar error to anyone not familiar with them.
Now you’re being presumptuous about people you don’t even know. If I know one of them well enough, they always call me up on any mistakes I do. So… yeah. Bang goes your theory. “Clustered” was meant – I mean, come on, the “t” and “s” are way too far apart for it not to be. Again, that’s a word preference that you have to label “different” rather than “mistake”. Just because something isn’t to -your – liking, it doesn’t mean that it’s wrong. It’s different.
Like I said, English is a sloppy language. There are multiple ways to express yourself, all of which can be correct.
Okay, that was a good troll. You had me fooled for a long time – credit where credit’s due.
-sigh-
You’re just too thickheaded to understand. My last comment shouldn’t be taken too literally. It’s not like if you wham several words together and “BOOM” you get a sentence. It’s more the fact that there is more than one way to say a sentence.
Don’t take everything as black and white. It only leaves you blind to other concepts.
I think that your grading should focus on fluency (of the sentence, not necessarily the language) over accuracy, personally.
Whilst it steps on the toes of what D_S does, there are some cases where the translation, whilst in essence is correct, clearly would not equate to that in Japanese. For example, the debt sentence that D_S outlines. No matter how you slice it, that sentence is bad English and a bad translation. However, if there was a sentence that was slightly inaccurate in its translation, but its still somewhat makes sense, then that would be rewarded higher marks.
Example:
Actual Translation: Yesterday, I went around my grandma’s house and played football.
Good Score: The other day, I went around my grandma’s house to play football.
Bad Score: Yesterday, I go around grandma’s house and play football.
I really hate these examples. In the good score, the sentence is loses some of its original meaning (it’s no longer ‘yesterday’ and now there’s a reason why you went to grandma’s), yet due to the fluency of the sentence, it is afforded a higher score. Overall, the sentence meaning isn’t lost. However, in the bad score, the meaning is basically right (it has the same day and it doesn’t link the house and the football) but the tenses are completely wrong, making it have bad fluency.
Despite the bad examples, I hope that the message still got through.
Those’d probably all get a bad score since you left the word “to” out.
:P
Err… I’d like to say not… but I’ll just explain my reasoning.
The word “to” makes the sentence clustered. If you were to ask me, it would be either “I went to grandma’s house” or “I went around grandma’s house”. The “I went around to grandma’s house” just isn’t something you’d say in real life, you’d be a bit more brief and informal.
The word “around” insinuates a visit, whereas “to” insinuates just being there, as well. Hence the “I went around grandma’s house”.
But even then, avoiding this matter all together, I could have just said “I visited grandma”.
Dammit, just realised I left all the “my”s out. Not that they matter too much.
Uh, if you think “I went around grandma’s house” is a grammatically correct sentence in that context then you have no business being an editor. The only thing that could possibly mean is that you literally walked around the perimeter of your grandmother’s house, and even then it sounds weird.
It’s a matter of colloquialism. It’s slang. That’s what being an editor is about. Having perfect grammar is one thing, conveying the message across in a manner that is natural is something else.
People constantly say “I went around my mate’s place” or “I’m going around my girlfriend’s tonight”. Just because it’s grammatically incorrect, that doesn’t mean that it’s not said at all.
Where do you live? I have never heard anyone say that in my life.
England, so it’s not like I live somewhere where English is a second-language.
Trust me. It is commonly said. It’s not good grammar, but it’s perfectly acceptable nonetheless. It’s not like if I said “I’m going around my mate’s place” that people will stare at me with confusion and bewilderment.
The English language is kinda sloppy like that.
Your search – “i’m going around my mate’s place” – did not match any documents.
Suggestions:
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
Try different keywords.
Try more general keywords.
Oh wait, managed to get a single result (from a UK site) for “i’m going around my girlfriend”. Unless that was a typo.
It’s still obscure enough that I would never use it unless I knew my audience very, very well.
Hmm, I see. Well, we’re both going to have to agree to disagree on this one, I’m afraid.
It’s probably because I’ve heard it a lot more than you, and… are you English? Maybe it’s an England thing.
I would actually like D_S to clarify this. I’m genuinely interested in what he makes of grammar vs colloquialism (when it calls for it, mind)
I’m Australian.
… huh. That’s surprising. Your version of English is usually a lot more slang.
Yes, and I’d never use Australian vernacular in subtitled dialog for a show set in Japan localised for a mostly American audience. It would look ridiculous.
Bollocks. Due to the length of this thing, I accidentally replied to the wrong post. It’s up above.
-sigh-
To be honest, SamRavster, you got it wrong even if you were using Britslang, because it should be: “Yesterday, I went round Grandma’s house and played football.”
English is only sloppy when you let it get sloppy. I mean, if you really wanted, u cld txtspk yr edits n b techncly rite (apparently it’s an evolution of the English language) but at the same time, would you really want to do that?
And there’s no point arguing grammar with non-Brits. They just don’t get it ;)
Well… fuck me. Appears I wasn’t slang enough. I’m one to admit I’m wrong when I’m clearly wrong, and in that regard, I am wrong. Thanks for that, FalseDawn.
I see what you mean there, but English is probably a lot worse for it than other languages, possibly due to the whole British/American/Australian take on it. It’s about accounting for this sloppiness which is key.
Lol, tell me about it. I’ve been on this battleground far too many times with non-Brits. I should have learned to stop sooner…
Grammar vs. colloquialism depends on the context. I’m very big on the idea of “natural English”, so if it’s something that’s commonly said, I don’t have a problem with it.
Now the tricky part comes in when we start using idioms and language that is central to our specific region. There are phrases that may make sense to people in one geographic region, but appear as gibberish to people everywhere else.
Therefore, it’s best to use English that’s as broad as possible so the majority of people can relate. Troubles start when we don’t know what other people think of the phrasing. Something that may be acceptable to one person could be seen as mind-fuckery by another.
“I’m going ’round my grandma’s” isn’t really something we’d say much here. Reason being, it can be better phrased as “I’m going to my grandma’s.” We’d really use it when it improves phrasing. “I’m going ’round my grandma’s to pick up something.” is acceptable because “I’m going to ____ to” is a bit awkward (though we definitely use that phrasing too).
I think I might be starting to ramble. Point is, it’s not so cut and dry. If you think everyone will be able to understand what the message is from your phrasing, and if you think it will enhance the quality of the dialogue, go for it. But if the saying might only be applicable to your hometown, state, or province, you might want to think of an alternative that can be better understood by more people.
To further Dark Sage’s comment, I find that most of my IRC time is spent saying “Is [such and such an idiom] a Britphrase or do Americans say it too?” – and I’ve had QCs going “WTF?” at phrases I thought would be well-used everywhere but in fact don’t extend beyond Lands’ End.
Unfortunately, most fansubbers don’t seem to understand the fact that subs are meant to represent dialog and that idioms are used in normal speech regularly. And those that do realise it, seem to take it too far (read: gg trolls, etc).
I was guilty of that up until about a year ago. I’d go into groups’ rooms and argue vehemently that “gonna” was not acceptable language in subtitles. Christ, I was a moron. A well-read moron, but a moron nonetheless.
I think the main problem is that groups which tend to avoid slang/idioms/natural-but-not-correct grammar end up having the least error-prone releases. Groups which have more natural phrasing tend to fuck it up more (it doesn’t even have to be trolling — take Ayako, for example). So which groups are new editors going to emulate? Those which don’t have much English knowledge will head the natural route and those who are well-informed will take the prim-and-proper route. To those of us who now “get it”, these two branching paths seem silly, but I was so sure of myself back in the day that slang was to be avoided at all costs.
The best way to solve this appears to be in convincing the more uppity editors that a comedy release does not need stuffy, stale writing and that a yakuza member CAN have non-standard English. These are pretty clear points that people would tend to agree with, but unless presented with them — and other examples — they’ll just keep on keeping on with what they’re doing.
The best edit I’ve seen where natural language really enhances the release was Lunar’s early Bleach episodes. The editor, Deidryt, decided to use ebonics for one of the characters and it suited that character perfectly, but the flak he got for it was monumental. If anyone wants to see how to interweave slang into a release, check that out.
And you think that’s bad – when I started editing, I thought it was a crime to use contractions :D
I’ve learnt a bit since then ^__^
I look up to Lunar’s epic editing, even today.
> Groups which have more natural phrasing tend to
> fuck it up more (it doesn’t even have to be trolling
> — take Ayako, for example)
I have to say that this depends heavily on where the translator from, and how the editors work. I won’t say much because Ayako still has English issues, even though we’re trying really hard.
>Yes, and I’d never use Australian vernacular in subtitled dialog for a show set in Japan localised for a mostly American audience. It would look ridiculous.
Oh lord, that would be hilarious.
Your skills would certainly be put to use if there were an Australian character on a show, though.
If such a show ever comes up, let me know. I will edit the fuck out of that bitch.
Yeah, that’s pretty much the “flow” aspect of it. I’m also thinking of adding “nuance”, which is basically how well the word choices reflect the meaning (i.e. big, huge, humongous etc).
Maybe Accuracy 50%, Flow and Nuance 25% each.
Accuracy is still the most important aspect IMO. Translations have to get the meanings across before other luxuries, and many fansub releases don’t even achieve that. Just like what Dark_Sage said about editing in Nisemonogatari posts.
Yeah, I thought so.
Nuance is a good idea, but it shouldn’t be as weighed as heavily as flow. I agree that accuracy is the most important thing, but the occasional word choice over the whole structure of the sentence shouldn’t be weighed the same. Especially when English is a language of synonyms.
Maybe Accuracy 50% Flow 35% and Nuance 15%? That seems more fair to each discipline.
How about a general grade and an individual grade on each aspect? I think it’d be fairer.
And does it mean weaboo groups will have lower grade because of awkward phrasing?
@TBA yes. However, it is possible to have literal translation without everything sounding awkward. It’s just a bit harder.
On the other hand, liberal TL is more prone to misinterpretations and lost meanings (reflected in Accuracy), so it evens everything out.
Wouldn’t capturing the nuance be a part of the accuracy score? I would argue that people who literally translate the variety of Japanese idioms just completely miss the mark on translation. For example, in an episode of Seikimatsu, a character said (灯台下暗し ). “The darkest place is under the lighthouse [literal]” or “Looks like it was right under our noses! [liberal]” – completely different meanings but the second is clearly better.
(「（とにかく、また明日、）方法を考えよう」) Literal: “Let us think about what to do by tomorrow shall we kind sir? Or:
Liberal: “Let’s sleep on it”.
@sapphire
If the meanings are completely different, then one of the translations are incorrect, even if they got every word’s dictionary translation right.
Some phrases are impossible to translate literally, and the example you listed was one of them. In this case, the literal translation is an accuracy error.
By nuance, I mean when both are accurate, but one sounds better or retains even more actual meaning.
In this example, “Looks like it was right under our noses” vs “We tend to overlook things closest to us” would be difference in nuance.
Oh yes. While “We tend to overlook things closest to us” would simply be inappropriate (though technically not inaccurate) to use, it’s better (though MUCH harder and MUCH sexier…) to try to find an equivalent idiom or expression that hits the same “connotation” if possible. And such a thing is simply not reflected in a pure accuracy score.
Judging nuance can be quite difficult and subjective, though. How would one do it without bias and with a consistent standard?
[OH GAWD I POSTED THAT OTHER COMMENT IN THE WRONG THREAD, PLZ DELETE THE OTHER ONE LOL]
It’s pretty obvious which one is better than the other. I used to be a movie fansubber, so I have a lot of experience with subtleties too.
If it’s hard to tell, then both are probably good or bad anyway.
It almost seems like a bit of word gymnastics, though. Critically, every phrase uttered has some sort of “nuance” attached to it. Aside from that, any one nuance can be re-stated a thousand different times. In certain circumstances, one could translate 好き as “like” or be more poetic by saying “appreciate,” would the second person be awarded nuance points therefore penalizing the first person for not thinking of that term but being perfectly accurate?
An editor/TL can go out completely out of bounds and reach into the depths of language to convey the character’s speech in a perfectly nuanced manner. Would that be a full score? Or would grasping the relatively easy nuances be the full score? In other words accuracy seems like a limited and therefore comprehensible point, but nuance seems unlimited.
The purpose is not putting everyone microscope and compare to each other. Everyone will be generalized under the scale “A” to “F” from “Excellent” to “Terrible”.
One group’s ingenious interpretation will not penalize another. What my reviews right now are about very basic things that can be easily determined. Like D_S said earlier with his editing reviews, my new scales won’t judging anything in such advanced levels that would involve a lot of subjectivity.
Sorry to chime in so late, but my OCD compelled me.
Wouldn’t it be simpler to use, “I played football by my grandmother’s house yesterday.” This implies that the character played football nearby his/her grandmother’s house, without actually visiting the grandmother.
Depending on the exact context, you may be more accurate using, “I played football at my grandmother’s house yesterday.” This statement makes the situation play out at the grandmother’s house, not just near it.
You could also infer meaning to the visit by using, “I went to my grandmother’s house to play football yesterday.” In other word’s, the purpose of the visit to Grandma’s house was to play football. Personally, I’d go for cookies.
Also, you should use “soccer” rather than football if your target audience was American.
This is why making statements like, “English is sloppy”, or “there’s no point arguing grammar with non-Brits. They just don’t get it,” is disingenuous. English, like most languages, WILL be sloppy if you don’t convey context properly. I’m not sure why you think only British folk can argue over grammar. I’m pretty sure I “get” grammar well enough to hold my own, despite being American and tolerating all the stereotypes that go along with that distinction. Perhaps you meant “non-Brits” to be those who don’t use English as their first language? I wouldn’t know since it wasn’t used in a decipherable context. ;)
Either way, I’m just glad you editors, timers, encoders, and translators work hard to put out something I can enjoy week to week. I don’t really care if it’s perfect, so log as I get the gist of what’s going on. I just find it funny when TL groups fight about grammar, when most of them live in glass houses.
This made my day.
Yeah, obvious language barriers tend to hinder proper communication within a group.
That’s why you need to make sure most of the “higher-ups” in an English fansub group can . . . speak English.
Moral of the story: Hadena is beyond help.
I no can speak language english
I like how this is considered “anonymous” ( ¬‿¬)
As I expected from Hadena…
lol
And then they always ask for native speakers.
Not that native speakers can’t pull off this kind of crap (GET A BRAIN MORANS etc) but fuck, as a non-native speaker, I want to shove a microscope down the Arab bitch. LEARN SOME FUCKING ENGLISH. YOU’RE ON THE FUCKING INTERNET, HOW DIFFICULT CAN IT BE, YOU ONLY GET IT SHOVED IN YOUR FACE 12 HOURS A DAY.
Um Brick-san, if you were an Arabian speakers you will now that for us English is not as easy as you think. I’ve living in the state for 3 years and I still that I suck when it comes to English writing or grammar. :( but that my opinion.
Pitful.
I guess I should apply as TLC at Hadena. I barely know basic Japanese and I’m not a native English speaker, but it doesn’t look like either of those issues would be a factor.
Also, doing TLC after editing? What. That sure sounds like a perfect way to ensure the script will be literal as fuck, unless the TLCer in question isn’t a retard. Which obviously is not the case.
It’s not a problem as long as the TL and editor work together.
YOU.
Isn’t the progress should be like this?
TL -> Timing/TLC -> TLC/Timing -> Edit -> QC -> Release
WHAT? Look how systematic that is; what is this blasphemy?
Hadena only knows
Guys stop giving Hadena a hard time. They’re trying out this new system of [TL+Editing] now, which is a revolutionary step in fansubbing. It’s gonna change the whole meta!
and we had already saw their results…
a lot of F-tiers =___=
Yesterday, I tried to edit their Brave 10 3 release, for my own sanity. I’d spent a half hour on it was only 7 minutes into the show. Holy crap!
I’m pretty sure many groups do that already. The whole Edit while TLing thing.
Scratch that. It only works when you have an extremely competent TLer who rarely, if ever, makes any major fuck ups on TLs.
The problem isn’t TL+Edit per se, it’s TL -> Edit -> QC -> TL(C). -_-
“Working” for Hadena is an orgasmic experience. They understand what they’re doing and can form coherent sentences. The “work on three projects to get into the staff channel” concept didn’t exist when I was there (I’m serious about that one, though).
Hadena- modernizing fansubbing every day… At first i thought it was just a hoax, but once i joined Hadena and saw their Tl+Edit system in action, my mind was reborn. It’s so fantastic, i use it everywhere now! Even this post was originally written in Russian, translated into english and then editted! Try it yourself and you’ll be amazed!
Hadena redefines quality by searching out and gathering the most competent staff from the farthest corners of the world.An Albanian such as myself would never have a chance in any other group, but in Hadena people’s worldviews are not restricted by stiff, decaying stereotypes and preconceptions. This pushes the boundaries of fansubbing even further, by creating a diverse cultural enviornment with infinite learning possibilities. I started studying English shortly after I joined the group 3 months ago and next week i will be working on my first release as an editor! You can watch it and see my progress yourself! With interactive cutting edge software like skype and IRC there are virtually no limits to what you can do with the creative folks at Hadena! Plus, Hadena throws collossal amounts of workforce at its releases to ensure the best viewer experience. Beating the competition is not a problem with 2 TL’s, 3 TLC’s, 4 editors, 3 TS’ and 6 QC’s on a single release…And we at Hadena don’t intend to stop there! WE NEED YOU! Enlist now and you will get an anime item of your choice worth 50$ shipped to your country and access to the staff channel just after your second release! Hurry, this offer is limited!
lol +1
Sugoi monogatari, aniki!
I pari shqiptar qe pe shoh me ni qisi site…unless you’re trolling, which you probably are…
http://hadena-subs.com/kyoukai-senjou-no-horizon/horizon-05/#comments
Hot damn.
What actually surprises me the most is that people are still surprised by this way of fansubbing. This kind of failsubbing has been around for years and has happened in some of the bigger name groups too.
Ah~ another good start of my day.
Oh this is hilarious. Only in Hadena.
If I may respectfully disagree…Hadena has always been misunderstood throughout it’s short, but influential history. You see, the clash of so many talented minds causes ideas to arise, which of course will be beyond the average joe. What has been regarded as failsubbing (the kind that has been around for years)by you and the things achieved by Hadena are two different things. You see, while other groups merely unknowingly made mistakes, while furiously trying to conform with the harsh standards of their times, Hadena created a whole new post modern style of fansubbing. The general public is just not ready for the out of the box innovations of Hadena, like omitting commas and not capitalizing sentences to mix things up a bit.
I have never been so enlightened!
I see the folly of my past ways.
Yes, omitting commas and abolishing capitalization do result in the subtitles taking up less screen space and optimizing anime viewing without compromising dialogue comprehension.
This minimalist style is truly the next step in fansubbing!
Wow, talk about some serious drama. I wouldn’t want to associate with any fansub group that has drama like that going on within its ranks. Also, distrusting your new recruits right off the bat is not the best thing to do. It’s definitely demoralizing, to say the least.
I now I don’t work for them anymore.
This is gold.
Shinning gold.
All this means is that another group will suck upon your arrival.
Please don’t go back into fansubbing.
owned
I knew this would happen the minute she came on…
*sigh*
If only we could just talk…
No winners here, only losers.
I haven’t laughed this hard in a bit, thank you for this.
hadena ain’t terrible, they just ain’t good.
And they’re unorthodox.
If your friend is who I think it is, he’s a gigantic faggot and it’s people like him that keep hadena from trusting new recruits, and bending to new recruit’s new ideas (new to them, set out for decades for the rest of fansubbing).
Oh wow. THIS just made my day.
tl;dr
>the only two competant QCs available
They had three “competant” QCs because you were there too.
However, hadena still doing things that not all do, as the new ova of Sora no Kiseki, so write you me at Nyatorrents thanks
What? It’s exactly because they “still doing things that not all do” that they must try to improve and not fuck up so hard their releases. If the shows they pick are rare or are those that are not likely to have other fansubs subbing them, then that’s the more reason to put more effort and dedication, as their version would be the only one around.
Wow
All this over subs. . .
Your all idiots
As long as you understand the story and still get a feeling for the characters personality.
Who gives a ****
>Wow
Wow…
>All this over subs…
All this over subs?!
>Your all idiots
You’re all idiots.
>As long as you understand the story and still get a feeling for the characters personality.
>Who gives a ****
As long as you understand the story and still get a feeling for the characters’ personalities, who gives a fuck?
(:
Hadena member detected. Kill yourself, your releases aren’t fucking English.
>Kill yourself, your releases aren’t fucking English.
Comma splice bro.
I once offered to be a timer for Hadena, worse Fucking mistake of my life, first project I helped on, there were TL Errors as far as the eye could see, they couldn’t even translate colors for fucks sake, and one line, where one of the characters go Daijobu blah blah blah, they only translated the blah blah blah bit, and left out Daijobu, I asked the manager if I could also TL Check it for him, and he said “Its already been edited and TL Checked”
-_-
My Response: “This project is fucked then”
My advice to all who want to join a fansub group: “actually know what you have to do in the positions you want to do, and also, DON’T JOIN HADENA!!!”
The system of tl and edit simultaneously is certainly not new. I used it last year when I was speedsubbing 10 shows a season.
holo!!! glad to hear that xD.hadena
Oh…didn’t finish my sentence.I was saying “Hadena is screwed.”
Only people that rely on Hadena, are those that don’t give a shit about the grammer, or are just impatient for the better subbing groups to release
grammar*
OoO. Oh My God!! Politics, anger, drama, etc, etc. what else do you require? Its a full entertainment pack in itself. Who needs to watch anime and movies ? :P
But seriously that was one heck of info for me. And I really must thank the person putting up this post cause this sure has caught attention of many fansubbers who have commented here. From next time whenever I grab a sub release I am always going to wonder about what things might have gone in releasing a single ep.
Maybe Hadena has problems at many of its fansub steps but one thing i can be pretty sure of is that the trasnaltion of the basic script must be complete in the sense of very few to no lines untranslated cause of a native japanese TLer. I can only wish for Hadena to make it past these problems.
Hadena is the worst sub group that ever was.
Wow, that was a pant-load full of boring drama.
An insightful comment on a year-old article.
Joining Hadena #YOLO
I remember watching an episode of C^3 by Hadena. I woke up in a hospital the next day.
I just want to say that even though those stuff said are true,(btw, nice going on that anonymous thing; Yeah, I totally couldn’t recognize the names anymore) I really can’t understand how some people here have responded or think for that matter, It’s just inhumane to act like that. I’d like to remind you what actualy means; It’s when some people put some of their precious times(many on harsh hours of day) just so they can offer you something that you couldn’t understand before, what’s more is that they don’t even ask for anything in return as compensation. They don’t even brag about they do, they just do. There are even times when FS groups don’t like what they do, but they still do it because there’s no other way for some people to understand it, unless they wait for a lot of time.(funny thing is, I myself never minded waiting for something, but then again, stuff were always being spoiled for me) You see, what I’m trying to say is, it may be true that some groups run into trouble, are new to what they do, still haven’t gotten the hang of things, have some rotten members in them, just are plain stupid or maybe even do a really terrible job, but they always put the effort to offer you something, if you can’t see the kindness in it or just don’t want it, then don’t go badmouting them all over the place or just plain out insult them, you can always criticize their works(and by doing so help them advance) but please, PLEASE, don’t act like that.
There are just some stuff that people don’t know how to do or cope with, there’re bound to be many mistakes and hardships but if you just quite there, how can you expect the person who forced you into quitting to get better? I’m aware it takes a strong person to set things right, but why don’t you try to be that person? Why quit and say that it’s hopeless? Why wait for someone else to take up where you left off? It’s never just because you weren’t strong enough, it’s just that you didn’t put in the effort needed to finish it. I know these people you’re talking about, I see when they try to put in the effort even though they can’t, not because they don’t have the capability to do it but because your actions make them lose their will to do so. And I also know how hard they try to make a better release when they hear just one person’s appreciation for a work they’ve done.
If my words are falling on deaf ears, I do not care; You can even make fun of me as much as you want, I still won’t care. But if you insult a group of human beings each working together for a single purpose, without knowing each and every individual in that group, I will care; An I will not idly stand by and see the insults being drawn upon them.
Oh my.
Good points! In fact, I just had a great idea. I want to fansub, but I don’t speak Japanese and I’m otherwise fucking terrible at everything. So I’m going to form a sub group where I just guesslate whatever random dialogue makes sense in context for a bunch of shows. I’ll always be out first because I won’t bother to TL check, edit or typeset anything, and I’ll mux to shareraws.
If anyone complains about how I’m ruining the experience for people by presenting unsuspecting viewers with a bullshit translation for their anime and abandoning any and all attempts at quality for the sake of being first, I guess I can just write a wall of text like the above, because obviously something done for free is immune to criticism and couldn’t possibly be more harmful than not doing it at all.
Just as a note, I can see where that comment’s coming from. Working with Hadena, I’ve seen those things in action but I’ve also found out that something’s really amiss in there too; As far as I’ve been able to tell, everyone’s working for quality there, and we even have pretty good scripts but when the time for release comes, eveything goes into a haze. And as far as I’m concerned, we have good translations, the problems usually arise in editing and stuff and more importantly, I’m not sure if you’ve seen the newer releases, but they seem to be getting better.
Either how, the history of Hadena is not something bright, so I know it’ll take more than just deceant releases to fix it but as long as you’re watching our newer releases with the mindset of that history, it won’t matter if we’re improving, you’re just going to ignore everything else.
If arashi cares about quality, I’m a Japanese citizen.
I’ve read Hadena’s release blog. The whole thing is him trying to dodge responsibility for his terrible translations while calling everyone who disagrees with him a fag. That paragraph I posted might as well be from his manifesto.
Yeah, I know. He can be fag. But hey, I rarely see him outside of his childish disguise. I know he shouldn’t be in charge, but he unfortuanetly is. Truth be told, I so much want to defend them but with what they’re doing, they always make me look like a fool. But I believe that he genuinely is trying to make the group a better place.
I’m really not so sure about that. I mean, look at the site right now. “Trollsubbing at it’s finest”
I believe dragonnumbers genuinely wanted to make the group better (and look at what happened to him) but notarashi. He’s been subbing for years and he’s still just as shit as when he started.
Agh….. fine. Btw, I think that topic was sort of my choice. Arashi simply doesn’t get sarcasm, he probably took that idea idea from me, eeven the previous one was my fault in ways. Ah w/e, I’ll just see if I can try to change something. Oh and Happy Halloween.
I know working together is good and all, but people work together to get results, and not getting good results mean you fail in life as a team.
It takes time for results to show, some things don’t happen in a day or two; In fact, most stuff show their results in the long run.
Give them time, they’ll either accomplish something or they won’t. If they don’t, you can go around saying you were right but if you’re not even willing to let them show you what they can do, then they won’t ever be able to accomplish anything you’d deem worthy.
You realize this article is almost a year old, at which point Hadena had already earned itself a reputation for being fucking awful, and that they haven’t improved in the slightest since then (barring a brief glimmer of potential while DragonNumbers was around). How long, exactly, are we supposed to wait for Hadena to pull its head out of its ass?
No offense to you or some other Hadena staff, because you legitimately sound like you care about your work and want to produce something good, but it’s not working. Hadena’s leadership and senior members have created an environment where quality is never going to happen until they take a step back and let other people take over.
Well, I won’t be in Hadena for much longer either, unfortunately our scripts seem to change on their own, which is impossible. I always thought the QC was messing something up, then after I QC-ed a script once and after that realized the end release was diffrent from my script, I realized I need to start acting on my own. So for now I’m trying to see if I can get some stuff in order, if not, I’ll be leaving Hadena and most probably won’t be joining another group either, working in Hadena I’ve realized it’s me that messes stuff up not others.( be that true or not)
This is another reason Hadena needs to die: people interested in fansubbing start there to learn the ropes (because Hadena’s always recruiting and has no standards), get yelled at for doing bad shit (from not being taught any better), get burned out, and quit the scene. Hadena is literally a cancer.
If you’re still interested in fansubbing, I’d actually encourage you to give it another try by applying for another group where people will actually tell you if you did something wrong and make it into a learning experience.
I’m still in the group, but already know a few places that are willing to take me in. I mainly joined joined Hadena because I {also} used to be one of the people trolling them, I figured maybe I shoud join them to see how stuff actually are, at first it was just a joke, but Arashi does not understand sarcasm, so I ended up in their ranks. The truth is I don’t believe we have bad members, it’s mainly the leadership that sucks.
Well, right now, I sort of have my own pads and I will soon start choosing my own members too. I’ll take my time on shows, but try to do a deceant job. (as a side note, we’re still using that fucking Piratenpad.)
YOU ARE THIS MAD
I’m mad, no arguing there.
Btw, I was just watching , who’s Imako? I want to kiss that person now. It’s a shame I never got to meet Imako, apparently all the good staff go mad and leave after a while.
http://hadena-subs.com/kyoukai-senjou-no-horizon/horizon-05/#comments ^^ was totally written there.
Imako’s in EveTaku now. You can catch him on IRC in #evetaku if you really want to chat with him.
Thanks, will do if I ever get the chance to.
http://hadena-subs.com/news/reboot-2014/
no problem here
Fansubbing is saved.