This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.
Because members of Esc-ShinBunBu whined about me being “biased” and not giving them a fair shot by only reviewing the first 11 minutes of this episode, I decided to be a nice guy and review the rest.
Karaoke.
Yes, the ending was better than the opening. It was competently done and the color changes throughout were welcome. If you want praise, stop reading after this and the typesetting, because everything else was pure shit.
Typesetting.
Yeah, these were fine.
… oh my.
This was okay enough.
… this was not. Shit’s supposed to be readable, guys.
Encoding.
The worst part about this is I’m not sure whether this is their shitty encoding at fault or because they uploaded the wrong file to release… or even if I just got a bad file. This is why groups use CRC32, Esc-Shin. I’ll have to teach you kids how to use that fucking thing, I guess.
1. Get Hashtab
2. For your completed file, right click -> properties then check out the File Hashes tab.
3. Copy the CRC32 value there and append it to the end of your release’s name.
This way, when people download your file, they can check to be certain they got the right one. If they get a corrupted version, the CRC32 value will be different. That’s why every fucking group uses CRC32.
Script.
This happened 8 times in 13 minutes. I guess they don’t understand a comma isn’t the same as a period.
And I guess they don’t understand where commas go.
t=”343″ />Nor do they understand question marks.
Electing to avoid periods is indeed a bold move.
I think we can just assume punctuation in general escapes them.
Ah, I think we’ve discovered the problem. It isn’t punctuation that escapes them. It’s English in general.
The word is “tucked”, not “tugged”.
Spell check is clearly too hard for these guys.
What a fantastic dictionary-only translation. You’re right, Esc-ShinBunBu, it’s clear that arashi0 didn’t actually translate this half of the show. Everyone knows he can’t read anything, let alone a dictionary. But that begs the question… if you blamed all your troubles in the first part on arashi0, then what the hell happened here?
I don’t know how much I laughed while reading this line, but I can tell you that the neighbors heard me.
This is simply “shit translation” at its finest. I would have accepted “Shopping bags are a girl’s best friend!” or “Shopping really is the best!” But the charm of women does not come from how much they spend at malls, you fucking morons.
If the fate of the world was up Esc-ShinBunBu, we’d all be dead.
Really, Esc-ShinBunBu? Really? I’m writing this thing in a fucking airport because I haven’t had a chance to do reviews anywhere else at any other time since Sunday… all because you alleged I was biased and that the second half of your show was so much fucking better. Honestly, this half might be even worse.
Does that’s sound good to you?
Why is “the” there? What possibly possessed you to think this was acceptable? Off with your hands. Type no more blasphemies in this life, Esc-ShinBunBu.
Overall grade: Still F
Let’s pretend that the lines were phrased exceptionally well. Let’s pretend they didn’t have more issues with comma splices than a first grade classroom. Let’s pretend their use of commas was informed by more than just flipping a coin when they were confused and basing their decision off of that.
Even assuming all these were true, there is still no way this could be considered a good release. This is why I stopped at the 11 minute mark — so I wouldn’t have to waste my fucking time on the rest of it. Well, now I did. I hope you’re happy, Esc-ShinBunBu.
Haters gonna hate, but your dose of sarcasm simply makes my day. <3
“In the 23rd Century, the fate of the world is up mechanical armored beings.”
http://i.imgur.com/k43tC.jpg
Eh, what can you do?
Besides, it was kind of fun this week to see 8th whining about how our translations this week for Ano Natsu 3 were “too literal” and I guess in retrospect we didn’t do everything we could have done to make this release better.
I don’t understand. You asked for a finished review saying the second half would be better because you switched members mid way. You get your second review and it still sucks. Maybe instead of whining on the boards here about how good you guys supposedly are, you could instead focus this anger onto making your releases actually good?
Believe me, response for episode 3 were a lot better this week. And now I quit Hadena, most of my anger is gone now so I feel like I focus on stuff better.
>the response for episode 3 was
>And now that I quit Hadena
I’m having a no good terrible horrible very bad day it seems.
*Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day.
You can’t even get a book title right.
YOU QUIT??!! THANK GOD!!!! ^o^, maybe theyre releases wont suck so bad now XD
glad to hear this. Maybe I can try another series from Hadena now
There’s a reason why groups have editor tests.
That’s it, new rule:
“All those who wish to fansub must have an editor with at least an elementary school equivalency in English.”
+1
I thought the CCCP Insurgent was good enough.
It boggles my mind how can a group butcher a script this badly. Don’t they take pride of what they release or they just don’t care?
I apologize in advance for this Takatin, but I just can’t stop myself..
“It boggles my mind how a group can butcher a script this badly. Don’t they take pride in what they release or do they just not care?”
I know my grammar isn’t great, that’s why I’m not an editor or QC.
Still better than these guys or Hadena. Who knows, you might just get a horror like this to a C! Somehow doubt even Dark_Sage could help this one get a B.
That’s how it’s in their group.
They think they know how to English, and don’t listen to people who tell them otherwise.
Hahahahahahaha
Yes, because you’re such an authority figure when it comes to matters of the English language.
I don’t think it takes an authority figure to point out that the phrase “that’s sound good” is comically bad English.
One does not need to be an expert painter to tell that a kindergartner’s painting is shit. However, one only needs to pass kindergarten to tell you that the English in this release is shit. You should’ve learned how not to make the mistakes you did in the first or second grade.
If I traveled back in time to my first grade self, I could tell you or whoever edited/qc’d this that indeed, your English is shit. If that doesn’t tell you exactly how bad this release is, I don’t know what will.
It’s actually very easy to overlook these errors.
I partially timed this episode and when I looked it after it had been released I didn’t actually notice some of the mistakes listed here.
I mean, hey, you guys have it easy. It’s posted for you in a single screenshot. Anyone on the team as QC could’ve noticed that. But after you’ve been staring at the same video for a while you start to zone out a bit. Of course, this is no excuse since other groups release with very little flaws, if any (mainly the only errors are sentences that sound awkward).
I have full faith in Hayate’s ability ‘to English’.
Hopefully, our later releases will have better grammar, nuance, spelling and flow.
True, Ranzis, you do begin to zone out when you look at the script for some time. That’s why, if you feel like you are zoning out slightly, you just take your eyes away from the script for a while.
I’m not saying it’s your fault, as your only a timer, but the editor/QC of this release can’t possibly use that as an excuse for the sheer amount of mistakes in here. I mean, there are probably more incorrect sentences in here than not.
Hopefully you guys improve… but it will take a long time before anyone sees noticeable results.
Sam, once you start zoning out even with a break it’s not easy to get back into. Ranzis watches his P4 or plays TF2 for the few hours after he times until he QC’s and still zones out.
I TL’d 09:00 to 13:00(we have 3 TLs for time reasons) and even that puts me in disability mode to at least check for spelling errors(Not like my English is good though). Hayate rushed the editing and I just used it without even spell-checking, so I claim fault for a lot of the errors above.
Considering how short the subs are displayed for, it’s easy to miss out on a lot of the mistakes, and where bigger groups can produce quality subs, we are all inexperienced and still getting used to looking for errors.
EP3 was better received and it’s probably because I paid more attention to the final checking, and if anyone hasn’t realised, technical errors such as a missing font for the ED and a screw-up of typesetting at 3:51 let us down too. There’s also a missing overlap line when the teacher talks, and also a line we forgot to apply the overlap style on.
We’re pulling out from speedsubbing this season, while we release a day late as to put extra effort into our script.
Thanks for pointing out the errors, and apologies if my English is bad(I know people would start editing all over this comment), but I’m just your engrish TL.
Also just saiyan but the episode title at the end isn’t supposed to be seen; even the Japanese is in white. I apologise if we’re supposed to make it readable in that situation, but we followed the original for obvious reasons.
Just to clarify, I never QC’d this episode.
I edited episode three slightly on input to make it sound better, so hopefully it does have better English.
Even then, a lot of the work is copy and paste.
There’s a huge difference between that and reading the subs off the screen.
Pro-tip: Grab an experienced QCer from somewhere. As Mr Dark Sage pointed out in the other topic, new groups that don’t quite hit the mark will always get more experienced people offering their services, for some reason. It’s happened with Chihiro and stretches as far back as Shinsen (some of their junk was awful). The trick is to pay attention to what these experienced subbers are saying and learn from them.
For instance, even though I’ve been editing since early 2006 – if Sage were to review one of my edits, I’d consider each point raised carefully and up my game. Because that’s how you become good subbers instead of the butt of peoples’ jokes.
EP2 didn’t involve any checking after Hayate, which wasn’t a good call.
I still completely trust Hayate, but everything did get rushed as soon as we saw Commie release(and is also the last time we did.)
My rushing is to blame, nothing or noone else.
EP3 had Ranzis QC the first 6 minutes and I just checked through the rest for blatant errors. Hopefully there’s none of these stuff and inb4 someone gets the wrong idea about copy and paste as Ranzis mentions, it’s copy and paste of the script to the times he’s talking about.
Also Hayate does a fine job of editing, my engrish could potentially become lethal at times while I TL, and bringing it down to punctuation errors IS quite something.
If your QCs cant QC a 20 minute episode without zoning out and overlooking sentences that make no sense, then they probably shouldn’t be QCs. Anyway, zoning out isn’t an excuse for not using spellcheck, a feature that’s -built into aegisub-.
But yeah, Janice is right on that regard. All the QC has to do is watch the episode for 20 minutes. That’s not a too onerous task for them to do; well, not onerous enough for them to zone out before the 20 minutes.
Besides, I know you say that the subtitles are only on the screen for a short while, but that still doesn’t stop you looking at the script. If you’re watching it and you think “Hmm… this part seems to have a few mistakes” or “That little section didn’t flow naturally”, then just pause the video and see exactly what you’re dealing with.
>It’s actually very easy to overlook these errors.
There’s a reason why you timers don’t QC/Edit while you time. First off, you have to know English REALLY WELL to pull off QC/Edit/Time. Most people who are OK at English shouldn’t be QCing or Editing let alone timing at the same time.
Even native speakers take Editor tests in the good groups. Hadena’s problem is it’s standards are too low because none of the leaders speak good English, so rats like Hayate can scurry in and rape the releases, and the leaders are none-the-wiser.
Second off, you have to have to be able to maintain an ~uncommonly extreme level of concentration and skill~ to QC while timing. Not being able to catch errors while you time is a given, not an excuse. If you think TL+Edit is bad, Time+QC is nearly impossible.
> so rats like Hayate can scurry in and rape the releases
That is just the single most brilliant thing I have ever read on this site.
Well Sapphi, I’m not working for Hadena now, so if people complain about the subs for Brave10 sounding awkward, that’s no fault of mine anymore.
Why would I be QC’ing as I time?
After I do the timing, I take a look at the script since when I time the script isn’t even done by that time.
I never remember seeing this script though.
The script looks rushed and as a result, many errors were left unnoticed.
I don’t think that anyone checked out the video before we released it, which seems to be our most glaring problem. Otherwise they would definitely have been fixed.
>Yes, because you’re such an authority figure when it comes to matters of the English language.
Deflecting doesn’t change your own F quality English.
If all the other groups can do it, there are really no excuses for your own consistent failures.
“and don’t listen to people who tell them otherwise.”
The proof is in the pudding, Xythar and janice.
“It’s actually very easy to overlook these errors.
I partially timed this episode and when I looked it after it had been released I didn’t actually notice some of the mistakes listed here.”
I don’t get the point of these quotations.
Can you please elaborate?
Your thesis sentence was “It’s actually very easy to overlook these errors.” Structurally, your following sentence that mentioned “I partially timed this episode” was either to give support to the claim that “It’s actually very easy to overlook these errors” or was completely irrelevant. Now it seems you’re claiming the latter…?
I’m just generally claiming that it’s very easy to overlook these errors.
If you look at what I said, I said that I took a look after the video had been released. I wasn’t on QC for that episode.
Still waiting for AFFTW-Hatsuyuki’s HDxD…
Eh, their release of 3 was pretty good, least in comparison to Coalguys and Commie this week.
If you’ve been watching episode 1 and 2, you may have already gotten used to their stupidity :(
That comment is just wrong.
Check out episode three if you think it’s going to be stupid again.
While I admit that there are errors, I’m sure it’s getting better.
I’ve compiled a mistake log of episode 3 (I do it while watching for fun) and there definitely are missing subs from what the teacher says (although it can’t be that hard to figure out what she’s saying if you’ve watched any kind of high school anime before) and some slight grammatical errors, which are all mainly overlookable. But yes, nobody wants to watch a show with missing commas or comma splices. It certainly makes the viewing awkward at times.
But we’ll work on these problems and hopefully people won’t just think of us as a troll fan subbing group.
Eventually we’ll get out of the D-F tier stage.
Though we could’ve perhaps had a better launch.
tl;dr: Read it.
>Eventually we’ll get out of the D-F tier stage.
You get better by discarding the trash that drags your releases down by adding errors to your script. It’s unrealistic to think you can teach your Editors/QCs English when they never attempt to get better at it.
Case in point, rather than focus on their own failures, they deflect and excuses for it and say stuff like, “Yes, because you’re such an authority figure when it comes to matters of the English language.” Time to cut off the rotting scabs infesting your group, cauterize the festering wound they leave in their wake, and move on with a fresher start.
>Time to cut off the rotting scabs infesting your group,
Except we have the bare minimal number of staff.
Then find some new staff and have tests upon entry. Better than leaving inadequate staff in, which will only result in releases like this being released.
Our release for Ep3 was done by two people and released 5 hours after broadcast (and only 3 in total have ever worked on this series). Not every group can be that fast (nor desired), but you certainly don’t need a lot of staff to make things work. In fact, the more people touch the script, the worse it gets.
Everyone just have to not fail in their positions.
There’s no such thing as shortage of staff.
http://www.crymore.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/ESC-ShinBunBu-Ano-Natsu-de-Matteru-02v2-KBS-1280×720-x264-AAC1.mkv_snapshot_23.41_2012.01.26_07.29.23.jpg
“… this was not. Shit’s supposed to be readable, guys.”
Yeah, but it’s not like you can read the original episode title in the first place. :>
Silly thing is, it’d be so easy to make the same translated sign readable just by changing the placement onscreen. This is just laziness.
This show isn’t worth shit, so nothing of value was lost.
“In the 23rd Century, the fate of the world is up mechanical armored beings.”
Is this supposed to be some kind of strange encrypted message from the future or something? >_>
It’s a close call, but I think the second half might be worse than the first half. All in all, the entire episode’s script is a train wreck.
That’s because they used our script to spot translate again, and made retarded modifications to it.
CoalGuys: “It’s a story set in the 23rd Century where mechanical armored crafts decide the fate of the world.”
Literal: “In the 23rd Century, mobile weapons perform with the world under their legs (this means fly across the world)”
My TL for that line was a bit wordy rush job, but I was liberal as hell on this line. Remon’s tone was same as Alice in KamiMemo, so I wanted it to sound nerdier/more technical than the common “mobile suits.”
Like you can compare to the literal TL, the chances of them getting “mechanical armored” is very low, and they obviously changed “crafts” to “beings” for alien theme or some retarded shit like that.
Then the second part, “decide the fate of the world” is even more unique than the first part. These gundams are flying across the world, this means the whole world is under war. The emphasis on these gundams to the plot also suggests their strategic importance, so -> “decide the fate of the world”.
The chances of a group getting two unique/identical liberal lines from a TL who did “Shopping really is a girl’s charm”? Zero. This is even more conclusive than Chihiro on Amagami SS+.
ESC is just a Hadena clone, except Hadena has gained enough pity help from other fansubbers for some unknown reason, and they can get something better than F now.
Honestly, these are both hopeless groups that should just die away.
That depends on if they’re stupid enough to let one of their own editors/qcs have the last say on a script.
It has nothing to do with their process. Every single position in this group, maybe other than the timer (depending how fast he is), are absolutely horrible.
People who are horrible at any fansubbing position would never improve, because anyone who has potential to improve would know their limits. I, for example, would never even think of editing or encoding for a group, even though I have basic knowledge of both and can do better at it than anyone who worked on this release.
The fact that the leadership uses didn’t test or don’t mind these incompetent people and their group members saying it’s not that bad… “our second half was better” then “third episode is better” just clinches it. They can’t even properly evaluate their own works. This is a shit group that doesn’t need to exist, and there’s no point in fansubbers trying to improve them just like Hadena.
They both use “new group and still learning” as an excuse, but it’s not an excuse at all. You learn how to fly a plane by studying it first. Only idiots would take off first and learn in the cockpit.
In the good old days, people just work together to overcome their shortages and have fun. But now, I think it’s this simple:
– If the translator can’t translate, get another.
– If the editor can’t edit, get another.
– If you really want to use the so-so staffs, just accept all critics.
I was replying to “Hadena has gained enough pity help from other fansubbers for some unknown reason, and they can get something better than F now.”
@TBA, it’s more like back in the day, it didn’t matter if it was low quality or slow, because no one else subbed a certain series.
Nowadays, you’re working on a series that many other groups are also subbing. There’s no point doing it when you’re slower AND significantly worse than other groups.
@8thSin
Now that I think again, that’s true, sadly.
>That’s because they used our script to spot translate again, and made retarded modifications to it.
You just keep telling yourself that, manslut.
lol, I don’t have to. It’s so blatant you shouldn’t even need explanation to see it.
Keep telling yourselves that you’re doing a good job.
Oh Hayate, I don’t mean to be blunt, but can you please just fuck off?
No-one here respects you. You are the laughing stock among your peers, but unfortunately, we have grown tired of laughing at you. We have grown tired of telling you how to edit properly. We have grown tired of even seeing your name.
Just get out. We want to see D_S review other groups, rather than ones you infest.
Trying to deny such conclusive evidence just makes you look like even more of an idiot.
> except Hadena has gained enough pity help from other fansubbers for some unknown reason
Perhaps it’s the most effective way to ‘change’ a group? For lulz? Easy entry?
Speak of which, I bet some people will try to join ESC now.
Lol, it wouldn’t surprise me. I bet it’s actually some kind of recruitment ploy.
Dark_Sage,
Those encoding screenshots are sorta fault of the encoder, they can be fixed but require manual freezing of the frames and replacing with a good frame, basically not many fansub encoders bother doing this nowadays or even know how to. They are from the transport stream and are of fault of the broadcaster, but that’s still no excuse for not fixing them.
Please review [Hadena] Kiss Dum -Engage Planet- 21 [BD Hi10P 1280×720 H264 AAC][BD Order][5492FFE1].mkv.
How is a show from 2007 even relevant?
Holy shit. [Esc-ShinBunBu], I even wanted to defend you after first review (I don’t find bad punctuation that big of a mistake [unless it’s putting goddamn spaces before commas/question marks…]) but you said that second half will be much better so I decided to wait. But no. It’s even worse. Welcome to F-tier, lol.
The Fudge happen with the encoding? Even I could do better encoding then that and my CPU Processor is the shittiest thing to come out into the technological age. And shouldn’t one of their members view the ep before its released to ensure it was encoded and muxed properly
Fuck. the internet is such a wonderful thing. it takes a very simple concept and turns into a fucking funny mmorpg. and just look how much ppl are willing to play.
8thsin makes a good point. can’t sub – don’t. this is so easy it hurts, yet i completely understand the urge to stroke your e-penis, even if turns out to be with sandpaper. these ppl probably don’t have alot of hobbies, that can be used in this mmorpg and fansubbing is that in which they are most competent. imagine the others, if any. so pity is really applicable.(i just pulled that half-out-of my ass)
well, lucky me then…