This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.
Apologies for the second post being necessary. WordPress apparently hates 40-page documents posing as posts. Here’s the follow-up to my in-depth editing on Nisemonogatari episode 3.
Fansub reviewathon when I wake up in the morning.
~Second Pass~
Depending on how I’m feeling, I either mux the script and do a QC run here or I go line by line and ignore all the non-script parts of the show. Generally, it’s the latter and that’s true in this case. This run is less focused on error management and more on phrasing improvements, but if the first run had a LOT of errors, I’ll place more value on error management. What you’re going to find here is that I can make a script truly shine with a second pass, which is why I recommend all editors do second passes on their scripts if they can.
And for this run? Not to be arrogant, but most groups aren’t going to field editors that fix the lines up like this.
Original: That’d be a pain, so cut it out.
Editedv2: That’d be a pain if you did, so please don’t.
Basic attempt to make the lines flow better and make more sense. It comes off of “Perhaps I make my room messy just so I can see your skill.”
Original: Then you’d marry me?
Original: If our positions were reversed.
Editedv2: But you’d still marry me?
Editedv2: Only if our positions were reversed.
Here I’m just trying to make the banter more banter-y. That means more snappy lines that can stand on their own.
Original: But you know, Araragi-sempai…
Original: You and Senjougahara-sempai
Original: make a good couple.
Editedv2: You know, Araragi-sempai…
Editedv2: Senjougahara-sempai and you
Editedv2: make a good couple.
I switched around the third line because I didn’t want two lines starting with “You” in a row. I took out the “But” in the first line because two lines back another sentence starts with “But”. Word variation is very important to quality writing/editing.
Original: And you’ll have me for a lover,
Original: and maybe Sengoku-chan as your third?
Editedv2: And you’ll have me for a lover,
Editedv2: and maybe Sengoku-chan as your third woman?
I wanted to make this a bit clearer. There’s no question about what’s happening with this line.
Original: I don’t know what to say
Original: about your dream proposal.
Editedv2: I don’t know what to say
Editedv2: about your fantasy proposal.
“Fantasy” is more playful than severe here, so considering the whole nature of the conversation I felt it was a better fit.
Original: Well, I don’t think you should worry about that relationship.
Original: What?
Editedv2: I don’t think you should worry about their relationship.
Editedv2: Why?
Mm, this new flow of lines is so much more delicious.
Original: I’m not terribly pleased about it.
Original: But since those two are happy with it,
Original: it isn’t my place to say anything.
Editedv2: I’m not terribly pleased with the situation.
Editedv2: But since those two are happy with how things are,
Editedv2: it isn’t my place to say anything.
Fixed for better phrasing. “I’m not terribly pleased about it.” is just poorly worded. And again, I’m mixing up the word choice here. The less you repeat, the better.
Now there’s something I want those of you who’ve read this far to know. I would not call out the original lines in a review. I would not mention them, nor would I even suggest that there is something that could be better here. But you can clearly see the changes I make are superior. See, that’s the problem. My reviews for the script part of a fansub operate at a very, very base level of scriptwork.
Do I wish I could talk about upper-tier editing? Why yes, I do. But until groups can consistently manage B-pluses or higher, I’m not seeing that happening. Many apologies.
Original: I just bought it on a whim, at a department store.
Editedv2: I just bought it on a whim at a department store.
I don’t feel the need to emphasize a pause here. I realize it’s the translator’s style for the show, but the comma can easily go without affecting a damn thing.
Original: So, yeah…
Original: That was a rare hand, so let’s end it here.
Editedv2: All right, then…
Editedv2: That was a rare hand, so let’s end it here.
“All right, then…” goes into the next line much smoother. “So, yeah…” is some generic segueing line, but it’s not really the best here.
Original: It’s a name I just heard said.
Editedv2: I’ve heard your name before.
I’m taking swing here because he’s either saying “I just heard your name from you” or “I’ve heard your name before”. I don’t speak Japanese, so these things are usually checked over with someone who can speak it, but I’m going to assume that the latter is the case. It would make more narrative sense and it would add a sense of “mystery” to the script, which definitely fits in the -gatari theme.
Original: It won’t cause problems if I ignore it.
Original: No, I have no choice but to ignore it.
Editedv2: It won’t cause problems if I ignore it.
Editedv2: No, I have no choice but to ignore it.
The emphasis on “but” helps emphasize that he has no choice here. “ignore it” is at the end of both lines because it’s the good kind of repetition — the kind that serves a point. It’s akin to someone yelling a command and then yelling it louder to drive the point home. “Stop! Stop, I say!” is one such example.
Original: The lesson for me here is that
Editedv2: The lesson appears to be that
I don’t think it’s of dire importance that he be the only one to learn a lesson. So I edited away that distinction. I like to talk about flow a lot, but that’s why I make most of these changes. This improves the flow.
Original: He’s totally different from that slacker, Oshino.
Original: He was more like Guillotine Cutter.
Original: Well, Oshino and Guillotine Cutter
Original: were totally different, but…
Editedv2: He’s different from that slacker, Oshino.
Editedv2: I’d say he’s more like Guillotine Cutter.
Editedv2: Well, Oshino and Guillotine Cutter
Editedv2: were altogether different, but…
Past tense for the GC/Oshino part cuz I’m pretty sure whoever/whatever this Guillotine Cutter is… is dead. That’s not a spoiler or anything. I don’t know shit about him except he’s in a previous book, so don’t get mad at me. I’m just jumping to conclusions over here.
Original: Those strange, depressing funeral clothes.
Editedv2: Those were strange, depressing funeral clothes.
The original would work if it had an ellipsis at the end, but ellipsis overuse kills baby penguins, so I wanted to avoid that. The simple fix was to just make the line a stand-alone sentence.
Original: Ominous…
Original: And threatening.
Editedv2: Ominous…
Editedv2: and threatening.
I usually don’t mind going straight into a capitalized sentence off of an ellipsis, but when it’s not really a sentence and when it fits so well with the previous line, it’s best to treat the ellipsis like a comma and leave the next line in lowercase.
Original: Don’t do things that will seriously depress me!
Editedv2: Don’t do things that will make me depressed!
The original line is super awkward and not something anyone would say. So I used my magical fixing stick known as a brain.
Original: I don’t know any boy who’d neglect his studies,
Original: to wander around here.
Editedv2: I don’t know any boy who’d neglect his studies,
Editedv2: just to wander around here.
What value does “just” add? Senjou’s the queen of harsh language. Dropping the “just” in there adds an extra layer of dismissal to her statement. He didn’t neglect his studies to do something and then wander around. He neglected his studies solely to wander around this specific, uninteresting place.
Original: you must be a true coward.
Editedv2: you must be a total coward.
As opposed to a false coward? Let’s fix this.
Original: Hanekawa’s busy today, and couldn’t make it.
Editedv2: Hanekawa’s busy today and couldn’t make it.
The more I think about these lines, the less I like the commas that seem to be arbitrarily added.
Original: She really did do it deliberately!
Editedv2: She really did do it deliberately!
Proper emphasis for better reading.
Original: So regardless of what you play, with whom,
Editedv2: So regardless of what you play, or with whom,
The first would only really work if it was something like “So regardless of what you play, with whom, or where…” but this isn’t a list, so it’s not right.
Original: Kanbaru is a cute little underclassman.
Original: And I don’t believe in life after death at all.
Editedv2: Kanbaru is my cute, little underclassman.
Editedv2: And I don’t believe in life after death.
Senjou can show more ownership of Kanbaru here. She’s not just anyone’s underclassman, she’s Senjou’s. Also fixed the adj, adj noun combination.
The second line has no need for the “at all” part so that was dropped to streamline the sentence.
Original: that said, I’d like to be certain that you know this…
Editedv2: that said, I’d like to be certain that you know this:
Colon over the ellipsis here because it sets up what she’s about to say much better. It’s not just “this…” with the implication the phrase continues. The colon means “what comes afterward is what I just said I’ll be talking about”. It’s more definite and more rare. It’s like a high-class prostitute whereas the ellipsis is just a drugged-out hobo with no teeth and loose morals. The ellipsis’ll fuck anyone he can get his gums around, but the night mistress will only take the finest of the politicians America has to offer. The colon in this line? She fucked a vice-president. That’s how good she is here.
Original: I finished my shopping, and I’m heading home.
Editedv2: I finished my shopping, and now I’m heading home.
This adds a better timeline to the events. Crazy what adding one word can do to the value of a sentence.
Original: I’m on my way back from Kanbaru’s.
Editedv2: I’m simply on my way back from Kanbaru’s.
“Simply” was added to show a bit of innocence. Kinda like “Oh, I was only coming back from her place. Nothing else.” His goal here is to assuage Senjou’s fears of infidelity.
Original: I saw a weird guy in front of Kanbaru’s house.
Original: When did they hang a mirror in front of Kanbaru’s house?
Editedv2: I saw a weird guy in front of Kanbaru’s house.
Editedv2: When did they hang a mirror in front of her house?
Fixed the overuse of “Kanbaru’s house” here.
Original: His name was…
Original: Kaiki?
Original: Was that it?
Editedv2: His name was…
Editedv2: Kaiki,
Editedv2: I think.
Less disjointed phrasing. The lines now connect in a single thought like the show implied it was.
Original: I hadn’t imagined he’d return to this town…
Editedv2: I never imagined he’d return to this town…
Just superior in every way.
Original: His feel was akin to that of Oshino and Guillotine Cutter.
Original: Those two are similar by virtue of their expertise in the supernatural.
Editedv2: I got the same vibes from him that I did from Oshino and Guillotine Cutter.
Editedv2: They are similar by virtue of their expertise in the supernatural.
I attempted to make these as sensible as possible. “feel” was replaced by “vibes” simple because it was a less-generic way to phrase it.
Original: Until I know at least what he’s after,
Editedv2: Until I at least know what he’s after,
Minor rephrase for a more natural flow of words.
Original: It’s hard to reach, deep in your pocket.
Original: My pockets aren’t that deep.
Editedv2: It’s hard to reach that deep in your pocket.
Editedv2: My pockets aren’t very deep!
This is a better setup for the “deep” joke later on. It also prevents “that deep” from being used twice in a row.
Pass 2 Results:
Time taken: ~30 minutes. (I forgot to set the timer, but this corresponds well to the start and end dates of the second round.)
Difficulty: Moderate.
Masturbation breaks: 3. (Dat Suruga <3) x2 (Dat high-class colon <3) x1
~Summary~
So all these edits and what did I think of the CR script? Great. It was pretty good. In my upcoming review style where I count down AND up instead of just marking off errors and calling the grade that way, this would receive an A-/B+ straight out of the box. I believe the CR TL visits this site if it’s the same one I’m thinking of, so I’d just like to tell you that “I know. I’ll go ‘click’ on him.” line was some of the best writing I’ve seen. And “Neither your life nor your pockets are that deep”? Fuck, I’d have your children if I could.
Unfortunately, other groups don’t get the CR break when it comes to Nise. If you’re going to rip and present the subs with your own flair, you damn well better make sure your own flair warrants waiting even a minute longer than CR’s release. You don’t get an automatic A- on the editing and a blowjob for having the ability to demux a HorribleSubs release. I’ve already been impressed by the CR translation, so I better be impressed by your editing or my critique is going to be scathing. A first pass like the one I showed you would suffice and I probably wouldn’t have much to say about it. I don’t expect you to reach my level in, say, 38 minutes. But with multiple editors and QCs in your group, there’s no way it’d be too hard to have decent error management.
THAT, Commie, is why I took your editing to task in my review of your subs. It’s not due to some weird bias I have against you (especially considering I’ve given your group more recommendations as “best group for this show” than any other). It’s my bias against lazy, ineffective editing.
tl;dr: Newfags don’t know shit about editing and should keep their mouths shut until they do.
Scripts used:
First Pass Edit Script (This is used as the “Original” script for the second pass.)
And yes, any group can use these scripts for whatever purposes.
~Intro-retro-flection-spection~
But in the end was this whole thing really about some newfag who didn’t know shit about editing and the courageous Dark_Sage putting him in his place? Not really. I already do that shit with my reviews. Why would I need to spend hours doing an editing critique just for that? That kid was a fun framing device (let’s be real here, it was a total honeypot), but I really wanted to put this out there simply because most people aren’t going to know too much about the editing process. I hope it helped somewhat and if you have any questions or comments on the article, go ahead and toss them in the comments section.
Just tell us in advance if you ever choose to edit anything for real again instead of talking through your hat.
Some people still remember your Sofuteni scripts and would prefer to avoid such gems of the English language.
No problem, bro. I’ll let Hadena know as soon as I get back into it so they can replace you.
Edit for those people who don’t follow my life like it’s a tabloid: I edited for a group called Nishishi on a joint with Ayako, doing a show called Softenni. The translator was arashi0, lead translator of Hadena. I’ve seen the depths of hell and there, no literature exists except his translations. Suffice to say, I couldn’t really edit well when I had to translate half the fucking script myself. What we really needed was a permanent TLC on that project, which we did not get, leaving skullking123 and I to handle lines which were unintelligible and left blank. Though shit wasn’t perfect, the release wasn’t near as bad as people made it out to be, but the hype of “Dark_Sage x Ayako joint!!!” made any expectations for the resulting quality much higher than I was expecting. I guess people got pissed that I can’t translate at an A-tier level.
tl;dr I worked on a C-tier release once because I had to pull the translations out of my ass or drop the show. How disappointing I am.
Oh, please. You can do better than that.
You can, right?
Probably, but don’t hold me to that.
Oh, sneaky, sneaky Dark_Sage. And there I thought our conversation was over.
The release that ‘people make out to be worse than it was’ stayed engrishy nonsense and hardly intelligible even after your famed editing prowess had thoroughly weeded out all bad English. Or not. Tehehe. Here’s the link in case you’ve forgotten about it: http://toayuku.wordpress.com/2011/04/25/ayako-softenni-02/
The reason people will continue to bring this up time and time again is that you are a pretender. You act like you know what you are talking about with great gusto, but in the end you’re a voice from the peanut gallery.
You pretty much explained everything one needs to know about Hadena right there. You’ve seen the scripts the editors there are given. It’s only natural that half of the lines in their releases are unintelligible seeing as their editors can’t even understand what the translator was attempting to say. What I’m getting at is that people are a bit too harsh on their editors. Just a bit though. As you said you were at least able to get it to what would be C-tier, which is better than I’ve ever seen a Hadena review get here.
Now for my comments on this article itself. I actually appreciate this article, as it serves as a good guide for the process itself. Most editing guides are dedicated almost entirely to style, and only give a general idea of how the process should go. The only thing to note is your times. For a new, inexperienced editor, those times will be nearly impossible to match. That aside, I would like to thank you for posting this, and I recommend this article to any newbie editor so they can get an idea of how to properly do their job.
I apologize for the times listed. That was a bit of me just jerking myself off over how awesome I am. I would expect an average editor to match my First Pass in about an hour to an hour and a half, which is the ideal time for a competent edit to be completed. (Two hours is the maximum I can ever recommend an editor to spend on the editing phase.)
Bullshit. If the script is nonsense, I expect the editor to rewrite the whole damn script so that it makes sense, even if the translation is entirely made up. This doesn’t in the least relieve Dark_Sage of his responsibilities.
There is some weird preconception that editors are like human spellcheckers. This is peculiar and also really fucking wrong. An editor who does nothing but spell- and grammarcheck (Hi Dark_Sage!) could be replaced by just about anyone capable of producing grammatically coherent English.
You’ve got to be kidding me.
>grammatically coherent English
then what about all those editors who can’t produce that?
Editors aren’t translators. How hard is that to understand? I realize I disappointed you by not being the fabled god-king of fansubbing, but I don’t know shit about Japanese. No one on the project really did. That’s why it was a poor release. I’ll take as much blame as I deserve, but understand that if I re-translated everything, our release would be a 100% troll release. I wouldn’t have felt comfortable doing that just to give the impression that the script had great English when it really wasn’t a translation at all.
I’m just going to leave this here as an example of why the person (translator) writing the initial script needs to at least have a certain level of competency with the target in order for the editor to do his job well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFiHaMdPPZE
Even exceptional editors can’t make sense of some translations due to the sheer ambiguity of badly translated lines. Sometimes it’s worse to try to guess at those lines than leave them engrished to hell (though personally, I try not to work with groups like that – but that’s something you learn over time).
So why have translators at all?
>Note: If your QCs are really good (I personally believe “QC” is a position of near-equal importance to “editor” in groups),
I stopped reading there, personally. You might be entirely right but this article basically serves no point since you didn’t do this for an episode that we’ve released. If you compared the CR script, our script and what you would edit the CR script to this would be a great post. Until then, keep up the butthurt.
p.s. I don’t even work on this show.
It’s more of an editing analysis post than me pissing all over your group (not like it’d be all that hard to do). If you were literate enough to read the final paragraph, you’d see that. This is just an editing analysis/explanation with the frame of me mocking your newest editor.
But if I made you mad enough to stop reading, I guess that serves a purpose too. Thanks for playing.
It doesn’t prove shit other than CR’s script for episode 3 is really bad. I don’t even know what the fuck you two faggots have been arguing about. Don’t try to bring me into it.
“really bad”? Holy shit, I know it’s a long read, but I have fucking summary paragraphs at end. You have no fucking clue what I posted. At least be literate long enough to read those.
Really? You think this many errors is acceptable?
For an in-depth, editing-only review? Probably not. For the review standards which I’ve been holding fansub groups to? Unfortunately, yes. (But let’s be fair. There were some amazing lines in this release that earned CR bonus points. Having worked on Bakemonogatari, I know not just any translator can handle it and this one handled it well.)
Let me quote myself because you’re too fucking lazy to read.
“Now there’s something I want those of you who’ve read this far to know. I would not call out the original lines in a review. I would not mention them, nor would I even suggest that there is something that could be better here. But you can clearly see the changes I make are superior. See, that’s the problem. My reviews for the script part of a fansub operate at a very, very base level of scriptwork.
Do I wish I could talk about upper-tier editing? Why yes, I do. But until groups can consistently manage B-pluses or higher, I’m not seeing that happening. Many apologies.”
When fansubs really get their shit together, maybe I’ll give you a true analysis. Until then, enjoy the kiddie gloves that I handle you with. Maybe I should hand out lollipops with the grades since all you seem to want is a sucker that will make you feel good.
Yessir, we really brought you into this. We totally singled you out to be the sole reader and forced you to read the entire thing while strapped to a chair with dicks in your hair.
NOPENOPENOPENOPENOPE
To be fair, D_S raises a good point. I’ve seen the CR subs, and how much more effort CR put into Nisemonogatari than many others they’ve done in the past. Heck, on the .ass files, they even label each character’s line with the appropriate name. So, the idea of changing every single line is just completely… absurd. Yes, the usual CR sloppiness is there, but that’s it.
But yeah, good job D_S. Teaching editors for generations to come.
Those are actor tags for the timer you dimwit, they have nothing to do with, like, anything at all.
Those actor “tags” also happen to be wrong about a tenth of the time, and they’re in pretty much every script CR does, not just Nisemonogatari. (Or at least those that I’ve seen.)
I’m timing Nisemonogatari for Commie, and I can tell you that actor information is useless 99.9% of the time for timing, assuming that the information is accurate (which it isn’t).
They do that for every show.
Nope, they don’t. If you don’t trust me, CR rip Horizon.
CR doesn’t have Horizon. Never had.
Christ, I am surrounded by morons.
http://www.crunchyroll.com/horizon-in-the-middle-of-nowhere
Right. I stand corrected.
Actor information still doesn’t prove jack.
Simulcast rip for Horizon was based on TAN, not CR. CR had a 10-day delay.
CR translations always come with actor names from what I’ve encountered for the past 2 seasons.
The thing is, Did you rip CR, or just downloaded HS?
will you do this for all the remaining eps?
joking,joking~
Thank you Sage, it was really informative to see upper-tier editing in action.
The only edit I personally had issue with was editing away some translated meaning of Kaiki’s lesson, but if you want to justify/expand on that it would be helpful.
Original: The lesson for me here is that
Editedv2: The lesson appears to be that
Mm, I wouldn’t say there’s anything of value lost by taking away “the lesson for me here”. If anything, widening the audience of people who can take something away from the lesson is superior, since now the viewer is included in those who can possibly get a take-away from whatever “wisdom” he shares.
As not an English native speaker, I read your posts simply to learn sth new (well, really, it’s just procrastination). So I’m grateful for your work and all…
Anyway, while I was reading this super long post, I found one line which I’m not sure, if it’s correct.
Your edition:
“Editedv2: I never imagined he’d return to this town…”
From what I’ve learned at my English classes, in this context “never” always comes with “have” (present perfect tense).
Like “I’ve never benn in Moscow”, “I’ve never imagined he’d return…”
Were I taught wrong?
The other thing. You always pick up constructions like:
“if you were…, you will…” and “if you are…, you would…”.
You tell people not to mix them and decide between:
“if you were…, you would…” and “if you are…, you will…”.
Once again, from what I’ve learned:
– first conditional (“if you are…, you will…”) is used in situations that may happen (e.g. “If you don’t feed your dog soon, it will die.”)
– second conditional (“if you were…, you will…”) is used in situations that are rather impossible (e.g “If you had a driver license, I would never ride with you” – which means, this person can’t have a license because of some reason).
So, for me it’s not an arbitrary decision which one you would choose.
Does it for native speakers make no difference?
(There is also a magic trick called mixed conditionals, but I can’t think up any good example for 1st+2nd. )
been, not benn
and for mixed conditional, I think I have one:
“If I tell my mom the truth, she would kill me.”
It’s possible to tell the truth, but mothers rather don’t kill their kids, right?
If you already know what the English term for it is, you can just Google it and see what happens.
http://www.englishpage.com/conditional/mixedconditional.html
Yeah, yeah, I’ve checked this site. As you can see, there isn’t an example for 1st conditional + 2nd conditional. There’s not even one sentence which starts with present simple.
How about “If you’re a nice guy, you’ll never get laid.” ?
If you mean: “If you were a nice guy, you’ll never get laid”, it makes no sense to me :( I mean, in what situation you would use it?
Yeah, and if you were a nice guy, you would have answered my other questions, too.
Edit: Shit. I don’t think I’ve been arguing the right point. One sec. Let’s start over.
There’s an obvious reason for that! Mixed conditionals don’t mix unreal with real. They mix tenses of a condition and its outcome while keeping the unreal sense for both. This is why, perhaps intuitively, since D_S is a native speaker, he always pinpoints such irregularities, e.g. “If I were a native speaker, I will fansub you to death”. It is just wrong and that’s all there is to it.
As for “never” and “simple” tenses, consider this an American English. From my experience they tend to simplify things and use simple tenses in sentences, which a British would definitely use a perfect tense/aspect in. It’s not bad, it’s just different and something to keep in mind. What’s more, since everybody uses “color” and “favor” in their scripts, it makes perfect sense for an editor to fix the tenses in the american manner as well.
You were taught wrong, yes. But it’s one of those “teaching you wrong on purpose” things because it’s a pretty easy rule to live by. Unfortunately, there are many cases where you don’t need to make it “I have never”. For example, “I never thought it would end like this!” is much better than “I have never thought it would end like this!” It’s just unnecessary and causes poor phrasing. A native speaker wouldn’t say it like that.
And I’m not really understanding your conditional question correctly. Could you rephrase it?
I was taught there is a significant difference between all conditionals, especially 1st and 2nd. And for situations that don’t match with typical rules, you have a magic mixed conditional.
You usually highlight in your reviews sentences where 1st and 2nd conditional are mixed. Like… “If you won’t hurry up, you would be late”. I understand why you do so.
But from your comments I get a feeling, which conditional you use is a matter of one’s likings, not difference in meaning.
The questions are:
1. Does using 1st and 2nd conditionals make any difference for native speakers?
2. Are there any situations where you mix 1st and 2nd conditional?
(btw, I didn’t think we are arguing :) )
As I understand it, structure-wise, there isn’t a whole lot of difference between 1st and 2nd conditional. They are both “if/then” statements, after all. It’s there usage that determines which type it is, and the main difference is if whether the “if” is possible (or likely) at the moment or not (or unlikely).
For example,
1st Conditional: “If I walk outside my house now, I will be really cold.” Since the weather is cold today, and since I am perfectly capable of leaving my house, it’s first conditional.
2nd Conditional: “If I had all the time in the world, I would make all my dreams come true.” An admittedly cheesy sentence, but it works as an example (since I do not have “all of the time in the world,” and find this position unlikely to change in the conceivable future).
If I’m wrong in my understanding of conditionals, I apologize. But I don’t think I am, lol
Yes, that’s a good way to think of it. Thanks, kazuki.
I understand that… All in all, European languages have similar structures. So, for me those 3 sentences have 3 different meanings:
– If I tell him the truth, he will kill me. == after telling him the truth he will take out a gun and I will have to run really fast;
– If I told him the truth, he would kill me. == I’m smart enough to not tell him the truth, so he will never find out and he won’t take out a gun…;
– If I tell him the truth, he would kill me. == after telling him the truth, he will be very angry, but he is a friend of mine, so he won’t really kill me;
Once again, form Dark_Sage’s comments I didn’t get a feeling native speakers distinct first two sentences much and that the third one is just wrong.
You’re right. I don’t make much of a distinction between the two. And you’re right on the third as well.
Lol, it took some time to get to the point. My fault ;(
I’m a little late, but as a native speaker I’d think of what Bas wrote like this:
– If I tell him the truth, he will kill me => I’m dead if he finds out. / If he finds out, I’m dead.
This is far more natural and implies you fear for your life and the consequences of the truth. It also has the implication of possibility of him finding out from someone other than you.
– If I told him the truth, he would kill me. => This is completely unnatural and at least in my experience no native speaker would say this. They would say something like “Good thing he didn’t find out, else/otherwise I’d be dead.” which implies he won’t ever find out for whatever reason, or, “Good thing he hasn’t found out, else/otherwise I’d be dead.” which implies you’ve been extremely cautious as to him not finding out and will continue being cautious until you reach the state of “he didn’t find out.”
– If I tell him the truth, he would kill me => He’d kill me if he found out.
Exaggerating the extent of the consequences, but you know they’ll be a certain degree of anger or retribution as a result of being caught out.
Personally, as a native speaker I don’t really think about rules, hell I’ve probably forgotten most of them specifically. What it comes down to is, that you learn how to interpret things with time and experience. What one person says one way could mean the exact opposite of what another person says the same way. As you speak a language more, you learn to forget the rules and just base understanding on past experience, common sense and scenarios or context.
I should add that the difference between using something like “tell/told” and “finds/find/found out” is that only a person with a death wish would be stupid enough to say something that would get them killed, vs, you damn know you fucked up and hope you don’t/didn’t get caught out for it.
Lol at the butthurt~
Also, as a TL, may I point out that here: http://www.crymore.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/FirstPassEdit_HorribleSubs-Nisemonogatari-03-480p.mkv_snapshot_01.13_2012.01.21_21.41.24-300×169.jpg
“Sempai” is not an acceptable romanization for 先輩 ->せんぱい(Senpai). I don´t know if this is something that an editor should know, but if you don´t have a TL to look at the CR script, it would be useful to know.
“A lot of things were left alone, such as phrasing styles and preferences. I’m not going to mess with the honorifics, the use of “sempai” over “senpai”, quotation styles, or any quirky things such as stalled phrasing (enforced through commas).”
You’re wrong, Mister Translator. The same phonetic transcription that produces は->wa when used to romanize topic markers can be used to romanize せんぱい->sempai.
You should know this, Mister Translator. I suggest you read up on traditional vs. modified Hepburn romanization.
Actually, never mind. I just saw your e-mail address.
Pearls before swine, and all that.
Let me rephrase for certain people: The romanization is very uncommon nowadays and a Japanese would never romanize it with an “m”, simply because the letter doesn’t exist as a single letter.
Anyway, do you get off on randomly insulting people on the internet or are you just butthurt day in, day out?
The point’s largely moot since the word “senpai” has no place in any halfway-decent localisation in the first place, regardless of how it’s romanised.
:opinionated:
you’ve really set yourself up for a flame war… though i did find it to be an interesting read. thanks mate.
“Now there’s something I want those of you who’ve read this far to know. I would not call out the original lines in a review. I would not mention them, nor would I even suggest that there is something that could be better here. But you can clearly see the changes I make are superior. See, that’s the problem. My reviews for the script part of a fansub operate at a very, very base level of scriptwork.
Do I wish I could talk about upper-tier editing? Why yes, I do. But until groups can consistently manage B-pluses or higher, I’m not seeing that happening. Many apologies.”
Yes, because you not understanding the meaning of an adverb in a sentence and therefore having to tear the entire sentence apart is clearly “top tier.”
You are hilarious.
And you, sir, are butthurt.
Not really. I’m just deeply concerned that people will read shit like this, as non-native speakers, and think this is representative of good English.
The only reason our friend here has any problem with understanding that entire line is because “terribly” is in it. He has problems with adverbs that most non-native speakers don’t fuck up so badly. There is so much wrong with his entire editing job here that finding all the mistakes would require their own blog post.
Hey, now that’s an idea.
Sounds like fun. I can’t wait.
He doesn’t have a problem with the word “terribly,” just the pronoun “it.” His editing created more variety in the sentence to keep the audience engaged. However, I think “I’m not terribly pleased about it” is fine.
Also “I’ve heard your name said” and “I’ve heard your name before” actually can mean two different things. The first means that he has only heard the name spoken, so he doesn’t care about the spelling or the kanji involved.
Lol, now you’re talking out of your arse.
The key word is “heard” not “before/said”. The fact remains that he still heard the word. How, pray tell, do you hear a word by… reading it or smelling it? Simple. You can’t. Therefore, the key word is heard, not how he heard it or when, which don’t matter at all in the sentence.
So, get over yourself. You’re terrible at English. Accept it.
+1
Honestly, in this case he isn’t just talking out of his ass.
I’m a good 80 to 95% sure that you either misread his comment or missed his point, either way what he said is at least somewhat relevant. Based on the context the sentence “I’ve heard your name said” could easily mean that the person has literally just heard your name spoken. On the other hand, “I’ve heard your name before” could mean that the person has heard of you before like if you have a good or bad reputation for example.
Anyway, if he’s terrible at anything he’s terrible of both getting his point across clearly and backing up his arguments.
I’ve got to hand it to you, D_S. You’re way more patient with people talking out of their ass in the comments than I could ever be.
Mad props.
Aww, thanks. I’m not so noble or patient though.
If I banned those who disagreed with me, and censored those who said things intended to get a rise out of me, I’d become everything I despise. I read through the lines as much as possible and sometimes the people who criticize me the most have great points and valid arguments. There’s the occasional “OMG YOU SO STUPID I HATE YOU” but those people don’t understand the art of trolling, so it’s hard to do anything but feel sorry for them.
Sometimes my pride takes a hit when I get called out for something, but I think it’s worth it to allow for a community where people aren’t afraid to speak their mind.
Aside from all the 「lolumad?」, I enjoyed this, partly because I had a good jerk to that Naeko image in Part 1.
Naeka*
My hands are still jittery after jerking it apparently.
Thanks, it was an interesting read. If only every group had such an editor…