This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.
This is why you can’t judge groups’ subs based on reputation alone. What the fuck happened, Hiryuu?
Release format: MKV (346 MB, 10-bit), MKV (457 MB, 8-bit)
Japanesiness: Honorifics.
Group website: http://www.hiryuufansubs.com/
8thsin’s translation critique: http://8ths.in/winter-2011-anime-subtitle-comparison/#Brave
Ji-hi’s screenshot comparisons: http://www.ji-hi.net/wi11/brave10/
Karaoke.
Opening. The colors constantly change depending on the background. While the karaoke itself isn’t so impressive, it does fit in with the style of the opening.
Ending. I know the white is meant to mimic the credits, but I was expecting more from… oomph from this. The song is auto-tuned to hell and back, so something fitting that would be more desirable.
Typesetting.
Beyond the titles, there were only two things to typeset, which obviously weren’t. There wasn’t even a nominal “Sign: _______” for them. Come on.
Script.
“Apologize now, you bastard!”
You use a comma to address someone. This is NOT optional. The editor on this release apparently thought it was… five fucking times.
“Saizo”? Fucking come on. She’s speaking directly to the guy.
“That’s because I’m traveling with you!”
Please don’t turn your brain off just because the show is stupid.
If I’m bad with tenses it would be bad if I edit anime!
“If I were depressed the entire time, it would be a waste!”
Leave it at “so she can’t help it”. Why the fuck was this line extended? Redundancy is never good and did you know redundancy is never good?
wasn’t -> weren’t
Hiryuu, what the fuck happened? You used to be good.
Homonyms are not synonyms. lead != led.
This is the kinda shit that would lead me to offering your editor a choice between a red pill and a blue pill, but both would contain cyanide. Trust me, your group would be the better for it.
Yes, because refusing to sleep with someone would immediately prompt the response “You miser!”
What the fucking fuck? No, really. Hiryuu, do you know what “miser” means? Just TL kechi like you haven’t been drinking bleach for years.
“Hmph, jerk!” or “Hmph, meanie!” <- The lines are naturally childish because that’s how she talks. I wonder if she fucks like a 12-year-old too.
The fuck is a “Mamegashi”? And if it’s food, why is it capitalized?
No one’s gonna start a sentence with “Then” in this context. The guy Saizo is talking to here didn’t say anything to prompt such a follow-up. You sure your editor is a native speaker?
“So, what about Isanami?”
“baka” does not only mean “idiot”. Where the fuck did you find your staff for this episode? Taco Bell?
“Let me go, you jerk!”
Dear reader, you have no idea how many comma splices I pass over, figuring they’re not worth bitching about. But sometimes a Sage has gotta rage.
These are two separate thoughts, you can’t just toss a comma in the middle of them and expect it to work, that would be stupid, and I know you aren’t stupid, right, Hiryuu?
“That’s great! He’ll definitely come save you!”
What the shit am I reading? “spout nonsense everywhere”? Who the fuck approves this kinda writing?
“You’re just a worthless girl who can’t do anything but spew out ignorant shit.”
Yes, you can swear in your “blood, sex, and ninjas” anime. This isn’t 4Kids Teaches Fansubbing.
Capitalizing “ninja”?
How the fuck did this group get an “A” before?
You mean “Allowing a girl to be kidnapped and climbing a cliff…”
More comma splicing, more obvious. Someone needs to take a bath in acid for this shit. This wasn’t the last of the terribad comma splices, but it’s the last I’m gonna point out.
“You came to save me, so…”
English is not that hard. This is really sad.
Watchability: Sort of watchable.
Overall grade: D
I find it admirable that you all wanted to train in a new editor, but trial by fire is not the way to go. This was, quite honestly, a very shitty release.
I’m gonna have to recommend Doki as the only group on this show with people that can actually speak English.
“I’m gonna have to recommend Doki”
Ouch.
That’s not necessarily so surprising. Doki generally has decent editing (although they know they did a shitty job on this show). What I’d be more concerned about is that Hadena achieved a better score than Hiryuu did.
2012
No they don’t. And even when they do, they have worse translations.
Can you read the sign from the given picture only? I can’t. :P
I’d rather watch this release. Doki’s translation is a D-, Hadena are the same or even worse. At least I know what’s going on when watching Hiryuu’s release. I can also easily correct most of those mistakes by myself.
Maybe this is the TL fault?
This show is translated by same person that is translating Aquarion EVOL at FFFpeeps which got F rank.
>TL
>Going through the script more than once
>Editing
Okay.
Why are you recommending doki when 8th says Horriblesubs/CR are the best subs by a long shot?
I have yet to watch the cr release. I don’t recommend releases I haven’t seen.
The ji-hi screenshot comparison is all you need, really. There’s at least four lines there that Doki clearly mistranslated, sometimes going as far as writing the exact opposite of what was being said. The whole “lol Doki” reputation they have isn’t just for nothing.
Here they are for people who can’t be bothered loading the page:
>The alias of the one so strong that none has laid a hand on him.
>He’s thought to be invincible because of his immense strength.
>So strong that he is considered completely invulnerable…
>With that level of strength, do you think you can really fight without hurting anyone?
>Walk the causeways, where people can see you.
>Walk along the dike so you’ll be seen.
>Try to stay on the main path and avoid back roads
>Try not to get noticed as you walk through the rice fields. Bye.
>Yukimura-sama, Saizou does not serve any lord.
>Yukimura-sama, Saizo has no master.
>Yukimura-sama, Saizo doesn’t have a master.
>Yukimura-sama, Saizou is very useful at times.
>I require ten heroes to equal the fingers on my hands.
>I need one brave warrior for each finger on these two hands.
>I need as many warriors as I have fingers on my hands.
>We need to have ten highly talented fingers on our hands.
It should be fairly obvious which one is Doki in each case. Having better English doesn’t excuse this level of inaccuracy.
So… I’m gonna have to recommend hadena at this point then. Fantastic.
Wait at least ’til 8thsin has re-reviewed their Brave 10, since he said he wasn’t really sure about the grade they scored. What’s more, they only got that first episode so… decent, to put it some way, but because of lyger’s help with the translation, yet they managed to fuck up the editing, sigh.
I’m following Hiryuu right now, and even I, not being a native speaker, have spotted some errors. But it’s thousands, no, million years better than having to put up with Doki’s guesslations or Hadena’s… you know what I mean. <_<
To be fair, Hadena deserves a good deal of credit and not all of the blame for how their Brave 10 episode 1 came out. I hadn’t read the manga and did minimal research, so names and terminology I left blank or guessed were filled in or corrected by their staff. Their editors were also willing to listen when I told one of them to stop editing my lines to be more literal. On my part, it was honestly a much rougher draft than any rough draft I’d write for my own projects. I simply wasn’t that interested in the show.
It’s not that I don’t want to give them some credit, but I am sure you have seen their previous releases before, and even if they try really hard to make things right, they somehow manage to screw something up in the end.
You are an awesome translator, man. I really like the job you do in EveTaku, and for what I’ve seen till now you handle the English language really well; just now I read your notes about Inu x Boku SS and they were really helpful. Any capable Editor could’ve done a better job in that first release, even if it was a much rougher draft, as you say, and would have corrected any serious mistake, but something like
http://www.crymore.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Hadena-Brave-10-01-1280×720-x264-AACE3EC16AF.mkv_snapshot_10.59_2012.01.13_16.10.43.jpg
is just no good. I know my English is disgusting, and I’m sure as hell something like this won’t help me to improve it. Not at all.
Not to defend Hadena’s editing practices, but there’s actually nothing wrong with that line. I don’t know what D_S’s problem was with it.
Being “called for” is an expression, and he is asking why someone is calling for him.
It should be “What am I being called for?” or “Why was I called here?”
> Checks D_S critique.
> Yepp, that’s it.
“Why was I called here?” changes the meaning. The original line does not necessarily state that he has arrived wherever it is that he is being called to (in fact, it implies that he hasn’t, if anything) whereas that line does.
“What am I being called for?” is also slightly different in meaning, it’s equivalent to “Why am I being called?” which is slightly different in tone than “Why am I being called for?”.
The “for” in “Why am I being called for?” is not the same as the “for” in “what for”. It is part of the verb, which in this case is “to be called for”.
To add to this, let’s have a look at the verb in its simplest form:
“I called for him”
I don’t think anyone would argue that this sentence needs to be rewritten as “I called him” in order to be correct.
Other similar examples to “Why am I being called for?”:
“Why am I being spoken to?”
“Why am I being yelled at?”
vs “I called for him”, “I spoke to him”, “I yelled at him”
The only reason “Why am I being called for?” raises issues with people is if they mistake the word “for” for being part of the construct “what for”, which is equivalent to “why”. That’s not the case here, though.
“Why am I being called for” has the fantastic support of 36 results on Google. One would think that such a valid English phrase would have more support. I’ll get into why I have a problem with it when I get into the airport in 4-5 hours.
Your beloved “why am I being called for?” line — which is totally a common English phrase — only comes up 36 times on Google. ~_~
I’ll go more in depth on why I think it’s such shitty English when I get back home and don’t have to type this shit up on my phone in the airport.
“What am I being called for?” has all of 10 results so I’m not sure you should be using that as your metric.
“Why was I called here?” changes the meaning. The original line does not necessarily state that he has arrived wherever it is that he is being called to (in fact, it implies that he hasn’t, if anything) whereas that line does.
> The situation is that they have just arrived at whats-it-name castle and are now waiting in the audience room they’ve been called to. The original line doesn’t state they’ve arrived there, the story does. Therefore, the change is valid and the meaning left untouched.
“What am I being called for?” is also slightly different in meaning, it’s equivalent to “Why am I being called?” which is slightly different in tone than “Why am I being called for?”.
> And the tone depends highly on who is actually speaking in what situation and to whom. I don’t remember the scene acutely enough to judge which tone to use and arguing without the right context can get iffy.
Either way, a change in tone might be an improvement, or it might not be. That is, if “Why am I being called for?” is legit, which I’m not entirely convinced of. :P
The “for” in “Why am I being called for?” is not the same as the “for” in “what for”. It is part of the verb, which in this case is “to be called for”.
> I never heard the verbal phrase “to be called for” used in this way, but I’m going to take your word for it. Well, actually, I’ll look how well you and D_S make your cases and then decide whether I should believe one of you or do some more research. ;)
What? I got 108.000 results for “What am I being called for?”
Similarly, it says ‘194,000 results’ for “why am I being called for?”. But you’ll see there’s only a few actual pages.
Google being weird or something, I dunno.
Sth’s wrong with my google… when I clicked second page of results it turned to 34 and 195.000 afterwards… google is useless.
From my personal experience – “What am I being called for?” sounds perfectly fine to me and I think I’ve encountered it many times, I’m familiar with this phrase. Otoh, I’ve never seen “Why am I being called for?”. Strange.
@corocoro: That’s fine, I was talking in general and without context (I’ve never watched this show). With context to refer to there are probably a lot of other phrases it could be changed to without introducing inaccuracy into the script, but in general terms I believe the phrase is still grammatically correct.
Given the situation you’ve described I would probably go for something like “Why did you call for me?” but the original phrase is not wrong per se.
Yeah, I would probably go for something like that as well, but I tried to keep my suggestions close to the original to show where I thought the confusion was.
Anyway, now looking forward to D_S’s explanation about why the phrase is wrong. ^^
This whole discussion about the tone is pretty pointless because that line didn’t technically mean “What am I being called for?”… His exact words would be smoothed out to “Why did they specifically ask for me?”
The stock translation for the more generic version of that line, “What do they want from me?” would work very well here.
True, but I am nothing if not someone who relishes every chance to engage in a long and drawn-out debate about something that doesn’t actually matter in the slightest.
> I’ll go more in depth on why I think it’s such shitty English when I get back home and don’t have to type this shit up on my phone in the airport.
You home yet? ;)
Oh, that’s right.
Okay, my grand response is here:
After reviewing the scene and line in question… I’m wrong. Gomen. I shall now proceed to bury this post with a bevy of reviews so my failure shall not be acknowledged by anyone.
In my defense, I still think it should be rephrased, but in terms of how I count my errors… the line is fine.
Xythar, you win a prize of your choosing or something.
What about horriblesubs/crunchyroll? Are they not the ones doing slow, but good releases for this show? They have been giving an A for translation by 8thsin, so perhaps a review of their release is in order?
I usually don’t review cr but I guess I should in this case.
One quick question from someone who´s not a native speaker: “If I´m depressed the entire time, it would be a waste!” sounds kinda awkward to me (so does the suggested correct line)…
Since I assume I´m wrong on that, my question is: Why wouldn´t “It would be a waste if I was/were depressed all the time!” work?
Both are correct. You usually put the part at the front that you want emphasize more – in this case that she isn’t a sourpuss.
To be honest, I’d just go with “I’d be a waste for me to be depressed the entire time.” because I like it more – and it sounds more like playful banter (I assume that’s what’s going on there) than a construction containing a subordinating conjunction.
By the way, if you’re having issues with karaoke lagging on lower powered PCs, try installing xy-vsfilter:
http://code.google.com/p/xy-vsfilter/
Just replace the VSFilter.dll that comes with CCCP with that one. OPs and EDs with karaoke in 10 bit encodes went from “completely unwatchable” to “perfectly fine” on my media PC after I did this.
Also be sure to download the more recent test build as opposed to the stable or it’ll crash on our Nisemonogatari OP kara, lol
That helps, thanks.
As Hiryu’s leader I have to take responsibility. We have failed the leechers. We’ll address this going forward, re-review us later, kk D_S? Though, I do hope the karaoke at least bumps us up slightly >_>
A D, a fucking D. Ugh.
I blame Bele.
Doki finally added a reasonable TLC to the show after the airing of the first episode as we saw the moments of guesslation. I’d be interested to see how our TL ranks now that it has a proper TLC. I’d assume that the errors are fewer; however, not entirely gone probably.
I have to pick nits here.
“If I’m bad with tenses it would be bad if I edit anime!”
This is not an issue of tense, it is an issue of mood. This sentence calls for the subjunctive mood, which in this usage calls for the same verb forms as the simple past tense.
Xythar, “why for” is absolutely, positively wrong 100% of the time. Either use “what for” or “why,” never “why for.” Ever. The only time you should use it is if you’re some two-brain-celled Looney Tunes character saying, “Why for you hit me?”
Oh, D_S, one more nit: “These are two separate thoughts, you can’t just toss a period in the middle of them and expect it to work, that would be stupid, and I know you aren’t stupid, right, Hiryuu?” (PSSSST, I think you meant “comma,” not “period.”)
>Xythar, “why for” is absolutely, positively wrong 100% of the time. Either use “what for” or “why,” never “why for.” Ever. The only time you should use it is if you’re some two-brain-celled Looney Tunes character saying, “Why for you hit me?”
Good job, you win the Reading Comprehension Award of the day. Please collect your prize from the nearest open manhole.
You are correct. On a second reading, I understand the point you were trying to make.
Let me then change my opinion to this: “Why am I being called for?” is an awkward sentence. You have to stop and actually think about it to get the intended meaning, and while I’m all for thinking in general, you shouldn’t have to do that with language.
“Why am I being summoned?” would have been a helluva lot more straightforward. (Assuming, of course, that that’s what was really meant, and it sounds like it wasn’t.)
I can hear the dead horse groaning under the beating, but Xythar was arguing that the “for” was part of a different phrase, and did not go with the “why”. For example, take the sentence “Why do you long for him?” and put it in the passive voice: “Why is he longed for?” In this case, “for” is part of the verb, just like in “call for” above.
Of course since it could easily be confused with the “what for?” construction I can agree that it’s bad wording, even if it’s grammatically correct, but 8th says it’s a bad translation anyway so oh well.