Happy Fifth Anniversary, Crymore.net

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This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.

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Shit, I can’t believe the site’s been around for five years now.

happy_fifth

Whether you’ve been with us since the very beginning or this is your first visit, thank you for existing. Here’s hoping for 50 more anniversaries ahead of us!

91 thoughts on “Happy Fifth Anniversary, Crymore.net”

  1. The mental image of a 70-some-year-old Dark_Sage wailing about the sad state of fansubbing and reminiscing about the “good old days” with semi-regular lapses into dementia is pretty amusing.

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  2. Even though, I only discovered your site about two or three years ago, it turned out quite quickly to be the blog I most frequently visit. Be it your reviews, your anime opinions or just random crap (http://crymore.net/2013/02/10/dark_sages-kotatsu-adventure/), you’ve become the most entertaining otaku I’ve got to know on the internet (excluding Youtube). And yet, you also helped me to improve my English in an enjoyable way by bashing all those shitsubs.

    Thank you, Dark_Sage, and I hope you’ll keep going for those 50 years.

    P.S. Most of your personal opinions still suck.

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  3. > Here’s hoping for 50 more anniversaries ahead of us!

    I’ll be 51 then -.-
    and happy fifth, formerly-whiners.pro-but-now-crymore.net

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  6. Hang on, hang on… give me a moment…

    Okay, sorry about that, my universe was rocking because Dark Sage actually said something nice and uplifting. I thought I had accidentally stumbled into Bizarro world and it took a bit for my brain to recalibrate.

    I haven’t been with you since the beginning since my relationship with anime has been on-again off-again during that period but I hope the site will still be around for a long time to come.

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  9. You know who else celebrated its fifth anniversary?
    Yeah, that’s right, Kosovo.
    Last week.
    Because everybody knows and cares about Kosovo.
    …
    I bet more people care about whiners.pro than about the youngest country in Europe.

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        • The editing isn’t the problem (if it’s just the editing I have to worry about, you’ll never see me go over 2 hours for a normal script), it’s the complete script rewriting for the jokesubs (I should never have even thrown this option out in the first place). Unlike editing, that is not a skill I have been developing for five years, and it’s quite a fucking headache to get through. (No, I’m not going to drop the Unlimited script, I’m just bitching about it.)

          And for Tamako, that delay is entirely me having no interest in applying GotWoot’s 300-line QC reports.

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                    • Quality > quantity. Your QC (because you really shouldn’t need more than one per show) should be a capable editor in his own right. Anything less is a waste of both the QC’s and the editor’s time.

                • It’s a process issue, not a people issue. Easiest way to fix it is to have the most picky QCs commit all their changes the scripts and pass them off as another edit pass.

                  Ideally, a QC report is a list of mistakes and areas where improvement is necessary. But if it’s all just “hey, I noticed the subs cut out two milliseconds before the frame, so now YOU are going to go and fix it, have fun”, well, guess who’s not gonna show up to do the QC apply for a couple days.

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                  • Get better timers? Look, I’m at a loss as to how to fix :p

                    I’ve never really had problems with QC reports as long as there are specified stages. Like SQC and RC – where SQCers can suggest editing changes to improve the script (I’m always open to suggestions on how I phrase things – especially as a Brit trying to American everything), but RCers only note genuine mistakes. At that point, they don’t even note the edit itself unless there is awkwardness in the grammar.

                    Obviously, that model doesn’t work well with the nature of fansubbing these days, where pretty much the whole process is geared towards speed.

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                    • I’m not gonna throw the timer or anyone under the bus. GotWoot doesn’t have bad staff — I already told you it’s a process issue and outlined the solution.

                    • Ha, I wasn’t serious with the “fire the timer” suggestion :D

                      If it helps, any timing issues/other issues, I just bounce back to the timer when I’m mixing QCs. Just like every editor has their own style, every timer seems to follow their own set of rules too. I tried to mix whole QC reports before (timing + editing) which I can technically do because I’m an ex-timer, but I got shouted at. Since then, I bounced anything that’s not an editing suggestion/error. You should try it – it’s stress-free (resulting in Somebody Else’s Problem(TM) :D).

                      Sure, it’s not the fastest routek, but as I already said, the process chosen isn’t the fastest route either, so you’re not really adding any time to the overall outlay.

                  • I’m applying all timing-related stuff in the series starting from the ep that was just released, as i probably should’ve done early on. Sorry about that. i think you could’ve been more assertive about it within the channel (please don’t get mad that i said that – it’s just what i perceived), but i guess it isn’t like anyone cares about Tamako anyway so blah. I don’t trust that my own phrasing suggestions are any good, so I won’t be applying those. If you didn’t like what the qcs were doing you could’ve told us that you didn’t like what we did and that we should do it differently from that point forward, and i wouldn’t be offended since i don’t know what i’m doing anyway.

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  16. I’ve been waiting some time now, but it doesn’t seem like you’re making another “Looking for feedback post” so fuck it, I’ll post it here.

    1. Oldsub reviews. Why do you choose random old shows to review? Keep an eye out for shows that can’t be subbed the traditional way or are difficult to sub. Shows like Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei and Seitokai Yakuindomo come to mind. (Yes, I know those aren’t “old” but they’re just examples.)

    2. [Whine-Subs]. Why insist on doing currently airing shows? Your team is much better at editing other subs. Why not go for shows that are infamous for not having any proper English releases available? You yourself said Bakemonogatari had no good subs available: “I hate every group that worked on this show, holy shit.”. On that note, I can’t seem to find any decent releases for Katanagatari myself.

    3. You said you work better on a schedule/under pressure. Put crymore.net on a schedule. e.g. Updates Monday, Wednesdays, Full Moons on business days, and every time a major character dies in an Urobuchi show.

    4. I always welcome your rant posts. I always love to hear you defending your shit taste. /s

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    • 2. There simply is not much demand for subs from old shows. I think most fansubbers try to consider how many downloads a show is likely to get before choosing their projects.

      3. Dark_Sage’s work schedule (as I understand) is highly unpredictable. So it is not likely that he would be able to meet any set schedule. Even on his days off, Dark_Sage occasionally finds himself tied up by unexpected events.

      4. I enjoy seeing these posts as well…but mostly only to serve as filler.

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    • I will be making one, a few days before the new season actively starts, but we can address these things here, since I don’t see a reason to make you sit on these thoughts until a formal request for them.

      1. Because I have a limited amount of time to review shit and I will always prioritize newer things. Why newer things? Because they’re what everyone’s talking about — they’re topical, and I don’t quite see the demand reviewing subs for shows that everyone has already seen years ago. Not to mention, acquiring old subs may be difficult considering there may not be any seeds for releases outside of whatever was picked up on BakaBT.

      2. I can’t handle Bakemonogatari without a TL of, say, Lyger’s skill working with me on it, hand-in-hand. And then I’d need a typesetter to help me out on ALL the signs. When I subbed the show with Koharubi, it was an absolute hell, and we hardsubbed that shit. Bake is just… it’s a clusterfuck. I can’t handle that without an extremely motivated expert team on my side, and I really don’t see the stars aligning for that. As for older shows in general? Again, it’s a matter of relevance.

      3. I could put Crymore on a schedule, sure. And then I’d just disregard it. On a personal note, I’m not good at getting things done even when I know they need to be. It’s a personal flaw I need to work on but never will.

      4. My driving philosophy for this site is “I write what I’d want to read if I were a reader of the site.” That includes my shitty opinions.

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  17. Dark_Sage (Readers & Fansubbers?),

    I do somewhat enjoy your reviews, but it seems you are under a big misconception.

    Let’s get right to the point.
    From what I’ve read in your articles, all you do is cry over things that won’t matter to at least 99% of the anime viewers.

    It’s fine to suggest improvements, but it’s ridiculous to expect ‘fansubbers’ sub anime in a “professional way” or “High Quality”.
    No, that’s not the case either. You want them to sub anime better than the so-called professionals out there.

    Am I wrong to assume that fan subbing means anime subbing done by “‘fans’ for fans”!?
    Why are you so inclined to make fan subbing lose its essence!?

    Just for your own selfish reasons!?
    Because you want your anime dose for free, and in even better quality than the professional ones!?

    When you’re not paying a single cent to fansubbers, how could you criticize them for their work!?

    If the fansub is ‘really’ unwatchable, a little criticism won’t be that bad.
    But if you criticize something that at least 99% of the viewers won’t find a problem with, you’re just being an ass.
    Just ’cause you’re one of those ‘beggars that try to be choosers’ doesn’t mean everyone shares the same sick attitude.

    What’s more, it’s clear that you are a self-righteous person.

    //

    An example (for Lulz?):

    *) [D_S] : In my opinion, ‘A’ should be ‘B’.
    [F_S] : But according to ‘XXX’, using ‘A’ is completely correct.
    [D_S] : And you think I care about that!? Fuck off! I said ‘A’ should be ‘B’, so it has to be so.
    [D_S]Translation -> I don’t care whether something is grammatically correct or not (despite the fact that I dare to criticize other editors’ work) if it is something I’m unaware of (like British English grammatical rules).
    Yeah, I’m too narrow minded! So what? If I only know one set of rule, everyone shall abide by it! Otherwise, be prepared to get bad grades from this shitty, self-righteous me! Muahahahaha…!
    Dunno why you care ‘so much’ about my completely biased evaluations (purely based on ‘my’ personal tastes), but since that’s the case, I’m more than willing to try to be an ass! Hohohoho…..

    //

    You know what, tons of people could figure out the mistakes like you. Hell, we human beings are naturally talented in finding faults in others!
    But when it’s our turn to do the same work, we make excuses like ‘don’t have time’, ‘ I’m lazy’, etc.
    When I think about such people, I could only recall one line off the top of my head – “You’re so full of shit.”
    If you have time to criticize others so much, there’s no way you don’t have time to those things yourself.
    (Particularly in this case, if you have enough time to properly watch and then write review of multiple groups, you could easily find some time to work for some groups. I just can’t believe you can’t spare an hour or so for them, which clearly means you’re nothing more than ‘a human who happens to be a native American English speaker (like millions of Americans), and is especially fond of criticizing others (like many other fellow humans)’.)

    It’s not that you’re wrong (most of the time, that is) when you point out a mistake. It’s just that your approach is too critical for a “‘fansub’ review”.
    Mentioning “grammar” related mistakes is fine, but to state things like line “X” could be written as “Y” to ‘make it sound more natural’ / ‘bring out the personality of the character’ / ‘blah-blah’ is overdoing it.
    Mentioning “‘this’ typesetting is really awkward” is fine, but stating stuff like “the typesetting doesn’t go “that” well with the video, and such” should be avoided.

    Well, what I’m trying to say is, ‘fansubbing’ is something that is expected to be done by some of the anime “fans” out there, not by “professionals”.
    So it’s clearly wrong to criticize ‘fansubbers’ for their work (unless they “really” do some shitty work).

    If you want everything for ‘free’, you don’t have any reason to expect ‘professional’ work.
    Hell, even when we pay for things, do we always get 100% satisfying results!? Just why are there millions of people complaining about their purchased goods!?
    When it’s stupid to expect to get a 100% satisfying product even after paying for it, how can you have such high expectations from ‘fansubbers’!? From those who don’t get a single cent from you!?

    Of course, that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be careful with their work.
    It’s their responsibility to ensure quality and timely releases.
    But, here ‘quality’ doesn’t mean “professional quality” or “the quality that *the self-righteous me* finds enjoyable”. It simply means “watchable quality [from an average viewer’s point of view]”.

    Remember, this is ‘fansubbing’ we are talking about, not ‘professional subbing, and such’.

    What’s more, Dark_Sage, you act like you are paying for their fansubs.
    Like, “Oh, I paid so much and this is what I get!?”

    All the posts I read were devoid of any expression of gratefulness to fansubbers.
    No ‘thank you’ whatsoever!?
    Just who the hell are you? ‘Dark_Sage’!? You’re more like ‘Old_Age'(it “feels” like you’re getting retarded in old age, that is). How could you dare to act so haughty!?
    You have so much time to criticize “watchable” ‘fansubs’, but you’re such a shit that you don’t even consider thanking them for their work!?

    Actually, fansubbers are also at fault.
    They shouldn’t have given you any importance in the first place.
    They could have simply used the suggestions to improve their work. That’s it.
    My dear fansubbers, tell those people who want “professional quality” work to look for other sources. Simple as that. You’re ‘fansubbers’ and don’t have any obligation to release HQ work.
    If it’s your own wish to release HQ work, that’s great. But if you’re only doing so after being “forced” by others, that’s not ‘fansubbing’. That’s “Coerced-subbing”!
    They put Dark_Sage on a pedestal, and that gave him the opportunity to treat them like this.

    What Dark_Sage should do:

    1) Point out the mistakes and then suggest some way to improve them.

    2) Show the fansubbers his gratitude for their work.
    [If the release isn’t that great, something like]: Thanks a lot for your hard work! There are some things that needs more attention, but nonetheless, I’m thankful for the effort you put in it.
    (Note: Even if they hardly worked on the official script, they still spent their time on other stuff. Again, the ‘quality’ doesn’t matter as long as it’s ‘watchable/not too bad’. For god’s sake, this is “fansubbing”! Go start your own subbing group if you want to see “professional quality” work or the quality that suits your taste. Don’t make it look like an ‘average viewer’s’ taste is similar to yours!
    Just ’cause a handful of people don’t enjoy something doesn’t mean it’s the same for the rest of the viewers.)

    3) Give them some words of encouragement.

    4) Summarization for Readers in the following way: “X” group is doing fine/good/great, in “my” opinion. Go ahead and download their releases if they are enjoyable enough for “you”.
    (You are here to help the viewers make the right decision for themselves, not to turn them into ‘entitled, whiny, complaining jerks’ like you!)

    Fansubbers don’t sub for an individual or for a minority. They sub for the entire anime fans community.
    Those who ‘bitch’ about “fansubs” (when it’s ‘watchable/not too bad’), should start paying 10 or 20 bucks an episode to them before criticizing their releases.
    And if you’re going to make excuses like it’s illegal work and stuff like that, don’t you dare expect “professional quality/HQ” work from those so-called ‘illegal releases’!

    LOL I don’t mean any offense to you(even if it may look that way), Dark_Sage, but it pains me to find people unable to understand the difference between ‘fansubbing’ and ‘professional subbing’.
    Besides that, they act as if ‘fansubbers’ are obliged to release ‘professional quality/HQ’ releases for “free”. (Some comments and download counts are no substitute for ‘money’. How about your employer starts ‘paying’ “thanks” instead of “money”, huh?)
    The only responsibility of ‘fansubbers’ is to release “watchable” work. If you so want them to work according to your wish, pay them!
    (When they are fansubbing in their own way, you are not obliged to pay. But if you want them to follow “your” guidelines/rules/etc., you obviously need to pay them.)

    Tl;dr-> Get your act straight already! Just what was the original purpose of ‘fansubbing’!?
    Surely, releasing “professional quality/HQ” work wasn’t it.
    It’s true that with the passage of time, things change. But still, “fansubbing” means “FANS Subbing”. Nothing more or less than that.

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    • Is dark_sage forcing fansubbers or the people that watch them to change? No. Is he offering free advice with comical commentary? Yes!

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    • i’m not a professional, but when i work i always try/hope to be more HQ as i can.
      if someone want to give me advices on how to make it possible i gladly accept.
      after i spent too much of my free time on them, and want them to be more perfect as they can.
      what i’m trying to say is, that fansubbers should try to be professionals, or better. they are fans right?? whose fan don’t want his series to be the more perfect has it could be??

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    • tl;dr – We’re all fansubbers in here, so I think that lampoons your argument straight away. Fansubbers do like picking faults in others’ work and it’s been like that since the heyday of AnimeJunkies, if not before – so either you’re not a fansubber and you’re being self-righteous for a faction of society you don’t stand for (which I find a little insulting, to tell you the truth) or you’re a fansubber who’s been walking around with his eyes closed for the last n amount of years.

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    • Your comment is longer than most blog posts, so I didn’t read it. I am impressed by your dedication to proper quotation marks, though. Did you type this in Word before submitting?

      ‘test’ “test” “test” ‘test’

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    • >”When you’re not paying a single cent to fansubbers, how could you criticize them for their work!?”

      When you’re not paying a single cent to Dark_Sage, how could you criticize him for his work!?

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      • Good point.

        HEG, I will accept criticism for a sum of 100 US Dollars per critique. No tricky business like using “and” in a sentence to get multiple points across — one critique per payment.

        Should I give you my PO Box so you can send me the money orders?

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    • Another HorribleSubs fagboy, Enough with this shit. D_S is here on his “own” blog, writing his “own” thoughts,about anime and fansubs. Either you do enjoy the reviews [Quoting “le butthurt”: “I do somewhat enjoy your reviews”] which happens to be the case, or you’re completly of the hook on another world made of your own delusions.

      To make it clear for a simpleton like you, “fans” do “care” about thier fucking fansubs, yeah we want subs that “corresponds to that character personality” and all the shit you can’t possible understand, for the simpleton you’re.

      To sum yp, either you like it or… GTFO :)

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  18. [D_S] : In my opinion, ‘A’ should be ‘B’.
    [F_S] : But according to ‘XXX’, using ‘A’ is completely correct.
    [D_S] : And you think I care about that!? Fuck off! I said ‘A’ should be ‘B’, so it has to be so.
    [D_S]Translation -> I don’t care whether something is grammatically correct or not (despite the fact that I dare to criticize other editors’ work) if it is something I’m unaware of (like British English grammatical rules).

    D_S listens very closely to any suggested fixes in the comments section. He’ll only keep what he wrote if his original statement still has merit.

    Particularly in this case, if you have enough time to properly watch and then write review of multiple groups, you could easily find some time to work for some groups.

    He’s already subbing two shows this season. How many do you want him to do?

    It’s not that you’re wrong (most of the time, that is) when you point out a mistake. It’s just that your approach is too critical for a “‘fansub’ review”.
    Mentioning “grammar” related mistakes is fine, but to state things like line “X” could be written as “Y” to ‘make it sound more natural’ / ‘bring out the personality of the character’ / ‘blah-blah’ is overdoing it.

    Quite often these types of criticisms do not affect his final grade. They’re added to the fansub reviews to:
    1. Make em’ more interesting
    2. Give readers some extra food for thought. Different people desire different things from their fansubs. There’s more to consider besides grammar points.

    So it’s clearly wrong to criticize ‘fansubbers’ for their work

    The main point is NOT to criticize. It helps fansubbers improve their releases and also helps leechers decide which group to go with.
    Don’t read into these fansubs reviews any more than that. The “tone” of the reviews is only there to make it all a more interesting read. Don’t take the harsh remarks seriously.

    You’re ‘fansubbers’ and don’t have any obligation to release HQ work.

    It’s true that they don’t have any obligation. However, most fansubbers do desire to release quality work each week. Why would they waste their free time working on a halfassed product?

    2) Show the fansubbers his gratitude for their work.
    [If the release isn’t that great, something like]: Thanks a lot for your hard work! There are some things that needs more attention, but nonetheless, I’m thankful for the effort you put in it.

    You want him to copy/paste that same message into every fansub review? That seems pointless.

    4) Summarization for Readers in the following way: “X” group is doing fine/good/great, in “my” opinion. Go ahead and download their releases if they are enjoyable enough for “you”.

    He totally already does this.


    [Comment Edited for grammerz n shit]

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    • correction: “The “tone” of the reviews is only there to make it all a more interesting read”

      Really should’ve proofread before I submitted lol.

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        • >Proofreading blog comments like you do
          >thesis papers

          ISHYGDDT. But back to the guy’s original post, TL:DR stop whining about free fagsubs. Sure, we can’t stop people from watching bad fansubs, but as a wise man once said, we can’t force people to stop reading “Twilight” novels either.

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  19. @retunity: Nah. “U mad bro?”

    @rarely_upset (1): No, I don’t use Word for comments. I write my opinion directly in the comment box.

    rarely_upset (2): “Oh. Never mind, then. I hope your rear recovers from its wrecking.”
    HEG: I don’t need any recovery, but you might need some though.

    @ Kono-yaro:

    First of all, I’m not some “fagboy”, but it may be so in your case for you to get such a stupid idea.

    Second, I never said that ‘no one’ cares about the quality of fansubs. What I was trying to say was, majority of them don’t care so much about it.
    Only a minority (that includes people like you) pay that much attention to the quality.

    Third, if you’re just a ‘leech’, don’t act arrogantly towards fansubbers. You don’t do a shit and still dare to criticize them!?
    If they are ‘really’ no good, that’s understandable. But you guys criticize even ‘good’ quality releases just ’cause they are not “great”.
    You think fansubbers are some perfect beings that are not allowed to make mistakes!?
    Try doing it yourself and see how complicated the whole procedure to sub a single episode is!
    My friend, it’s easier said than done.

    -> To sum up, either you get it or… SYFT :)

    @ Kamica: “You want him to copy/paste that same message into every fansub review? That seems pointless.”

    No, it was just an example.
    I just want him to mention his words of appreciation and gratitude since he obviously watches and enjoys fansubs.
    And, showing your gratitude for someone’s hard work(when you actually gain something from it) isn’t ‘pointless’, right?
    It’s a part of basic mannerism.
    (By the way, your reply is a lot better than that ‘R-R-KY’ lot. :) )

    @ Rest of you:

    Well, I’m not saying that fansubbers shouldn’t try to release HQ work. Everyone (excluding some exceptions) would ‘prefer’ HQ work for their viewing pleasure.
    I simply want to mention that it should be done with their “own free will”, not by being “afraid of getting bad grades” from some reviewer.

    That’s all.

    Reply

    • See, most people would reply to individual comments with the buttons that serve that express purpose. But then again, most people don’t see readability as a challenge to surmount.

      And again, you don’t seem to comprehend the whole ‘review’ concept. Sage reviews the English in the subtitles, which generally falls into inerrant and erroneous. Given we can presume what isn’t criticised is generally acceptable (unless otherwise noted), there’s absolutely no reason to go through the release and point out that “Hello, Bob” is a perfectly valid English expression. Dark Sage does point out phrases that he finds exceptional occasionally, but it’s not like you’re going to find many literary gems in translated conversational Japanese.

      I’m not sure why you think D_S should mouth hollow praises for fansub groups successfully distributing their releases (a rather mundane occurrence in the world of fansubbing), but it would accomplish little apart from stroking fansubbers’ egos, and isn’t exactly in his character.

      Reply

    • Oh boy ^^ Still butt-hurt like always.
      Well, This so called “Majority” of yours, do you have any proof of that? Can you give me numbers?

      Then, might I add a fact, that without viewers none of your so loved fansubbers – those whom you worship to the point you lick their ass with obedience – do give a fuck about viewers opinion (that(s why there’s V2, patches, etc..) and they do it because they need their fans opinions ^^

      At last, if they do a job, either for fun or paid for, they better pay attention to details that makes it perfect. You might ask why, and I may answer that: “It’s because we are fans who love these shows, we want them perfect! That’s why we try!”

      So the “own free will” nonsense your blabbing isn’t a valid argument, we need fansubs, and we love them perfect, they can’t be perfect, that’s why there’s reviews… If you’re the kinda leech who doesn’t give a fuck about quality.. then baby boy, GFTO :)

      Reply

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