104 thoughts on “Fansub Review: [Commie] Shingeki no Kyojin (Episode 07)”

1. Can’t even take a shows translation seriously when they fuck up the title and terminology that badly.

   Downloaded commies version first and saw that mangling they did and walked away.

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2. My main complaint is that it doesn’t make any sense to mix Modern English declensions with Old English ones. Eotena is already genitive plural — adding apostrophes and s’s just makes it… more genitive? (And the title doesn’t get that treatment for some reason…)

   There’re also phrases like “of the Eotena” mentioned in the dialogue-y thing (which I, for the most part, enjoyed non-ironically) which are just strange. I’m going to disregard the fact that they look weird in modern English and say that, while the entire phrase “of the Eotena” fulfills a genitive purpose in the sentence, the word “Eotena” should have its case determined by the preposition it goes with (as it would in Old English, much like in many modern Germanic languages). I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that it should be dative.

   I guess my qualm is that if you’re going to go linguistics geek, you really should go full linguistics geek.

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   • Yes, it’s dative.

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3. IF those were the only mistakes, that’s all cool – but if there were more and you just shortened it for writing’s sake, I’m surprised you gave that release a C..

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   • The “eotenas” shit is enough to give it an “F” in my book, but I figured I’d give them a shot, ignoring that. This would be quite a short review otherwise.

     There are more mistakes, yes, but nothing I felt needed screenshotting.

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4. Jaysus!

   (Or should I say: “Eāsus!” – ?)

   I have never before seen just why they always get dumped on so thoroughly everywhere. I know that I *have* seen shows subbed by Commie that I was perfectly happy with – that were actually the best available for the series (although I can’t remember specific examples)… But, “stupidheads?” “Eotenas?” Rully?! OMFGLOL!

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   • (Or should I say: “Eāsus!” – ?)

     hahahahahah

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5. >A word that apparently existed a few hundred years ago.

   Well, over eight hundred years ago, in a language mutually unintelligible with our own. That it has a modern English equivalent (ettin) which is still archaic is telling.

   Their half-arsed attempts to match the Old English noun inflections (Yep, we had those before the Frenchies invaded. Genders too!) really irk me. If you’re going to pluralise it as it is in its native language, you may as well go the whole hog.

   http://faculty.virginia.edu/OldEnglish/courses/handouts/magic.pdf

   ‘Eoten’ is a strong masculine noun, so its plural genitive is eotena, not eotena’s.

   Though ‘an eoten’ is correct, as it’s pronounced /eoten/ (think Japanese). If it were ‘jotun’ it would be written ‘jotun’. Pre-Great Vowel Shift vowels were a lot simpler :P

   Of course, loaning an Old English word is ultimately wholly retarded.

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   • Huh. Woulda thought it would follow the jotun pronunciation rather than the ettin one, but I didn’t particularly throw much research into it. I’ll assume you’re right, thanks.

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   • >Though ‘an eoten’ is correct
     Except that they can’t always keep that straight either: http://i.imgur.com/7wvuieh.jpg

     Which combined with what you wrote is precisely the sort of issue that can come up with something like this: it’s easy to be half-assed and get confused about it. English can be pretty flexible and I have no inherent problem with people coming up with new terminology or using loaner words when useful. But putting aside (as DS did) the question of whether this particular case was “useful”, inventing terminology does require more work. It requires self-consistency and appropriate use of grammar rules so that viewers can easily infer the meaning just from repeated viewing. If it’s half-assed and no one on the team except one totally gets it either then it really sticks out.

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6. >eoten

   Someone didn’t pay attention while watching Thor.

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7. Yeah… I couldn’t stand the “Eoten” stuff so I decided not to go with them :|.

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8. And my god, Dark_Sage, I thank you for not showering the editor/TL/whatever-the-fuck with any more attention than he initially drew. If his head were any further up his arse, he’d be a topological curiosity.

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9. “Maneuver” is capitalized because their equipment is called Multiaxial Maneuver Gear (as a proper noun) in Commie’s translation.

   Am I the only person who actually likes “eoten” for pretty much the reason Commie gave, viz. that it is much more eerie/otherworldly than “Titan”?

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   • And is there any logical reason behind that? Or does it just seem “cooler” to capitalize it?

     Yes, considering the reasoning was entirely bullshit. If you don’t like how something is named in a show, then too fucking bad. It’s not your call to make, because it’s not your fucking show.

     As for “eoten” as a word, no. It doesn’t seem eerie or otherworldly. I think we should call them angels instead. Because, really, isn’t that what they are, you know, if you’re deep enough to understand it? Wouldn’t calling them angels be much creepier than calling them eoten, as well? Looks like Commie didn’t think this one through.

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     • I presume the German’s rubbing off on them. Soon they’ll be creating ludicrously long compound words, inflecting their nouns and abundantly using umlauts.

       Hell, ‘Riese’ would be a better word for ‘kyojin’ anyway. Come to think of it, if they wanted to maintain the supposed profound nuances of the word at the expense of loaning from a different language, why the fuck didn’t they just use the Japanese? I’m fairly certain more of their viewers know Modern Japanese than fucking Old English.

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       • > Soon they’ll be creating ludicrously long compound words,
         > inflecting their nouns and abundantly using umlauts.

         You mean like ‘Multi-axialeManöver-Getrieben’?

         Can’t wait.

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         • Nah, “mehrachsige Manövergetriebe” for most people, I think. But “Multiaxialmanövergetriebe” is indeed possible.

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           • “gear” ≠ “Getriebe”

             Common mistake, but in this case “gear” just means “Ausrüstung” – as in “equipment”.
             “Getriebe” in German means an actual, turning “gear”.

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       • >Soon they’ll be creating ludicrously
         >long compound words, inflecting their
         >nouns and abundantly using umlauts.

         I assume their “Girls und Panzer” didn’t count since they pretty much released the entire thing in East German, if I remember correctly.

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     • Titan brings the image of Greek titan deity, so I prefer “Eoten” more, There’s not much any other good alternatives… Titans? Giants? They don’t give the same eerie aura for those creatures as “Eoten” does, so it’s not really a bad idea to use that word in my opinion.

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       • Does Titan ACTUALLY bring to mind the image of a Greek Diety? Are you so closely tied to Greek mythology that that’s what you associate the word with? Because in modern day English, words like giant and titan are really just synonyms for “large”. They have their roots in mythology, but they’re centuries past relevance. When I hear the word titanic, I think of either the boat or something very large, I don’t at all associate Greek mythology into it.

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         • That will depend on the viewer. If they know Greek mythology very well then they will associate it with that.

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           • Unlikely. If you’re cultured enough to know the intricacies of Greek mythology, then you probably have a good base knowledge of how language has moved on over time.

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             • True. But that is not what I mean. Take me as an example. I’m not an American/European. I first encountered the word “Titan” in Greek mythology and read many Greek mythology stories. So if I hear/read the word “Titan”, Greek mythology will definitely will be the FIRST thing in my mind.

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               • I think you’re the exception rather than the rule.
                 Besides, by that same argument eoten and giant would also be bad terms since both have roots in mythology too.

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               • It seems Hollywood doesn’t agree with you. “The Clash of the Titans” had no Titans in it whatsoever (nor giants, to tell the truth), so if big budget movies can get away with hashing the mythological meaning of a word (which let’s face it, happens all the time everywhere – look at elves, for instance. Are you telling me Legolas helps Santa make presents?), then I can’t see the issue with an anime series doing a similar thing, taking it back from the word “titanic” meaning huge.

                 http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/titanic?s=t

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                 • 

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                   • They’re taking the presents to Isengard…

                   • Thanks. This made my day.

         • >Does Titan ACTUALLY bring to mind the image of a Greek Diety? Are you so closely tied to Greek mythology that that’s what you associate the word with?

           Here in Italy what mythological Titans are is common knowledge you expect even 10-years-old olds to have. Is that not so in the rest of Europe and America?

           People also know giants originate from Greek mythology, but any really big humanoid creature is referred to as a giant.

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           • Surprising, people tend to be more knowledgeable in the mythology of their own culture than that of others. As such, I’d imagine most people in at least my country would recognise the name ‘Titan’ but would not be au fait with the mythology unless they went to a posh school or are interested in the Graeco-Roman culture or mythology.

             I don’t think many English speakers at all associate giants with Gigantes, or indeed know of them, despite the etymology. Giant has undoubtedly supplanted ettin in referring to more British folklore.

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       • Eoten sounds retarded, not eerie or intimidating at all. In Greek Mythology the Titans were giants so it still gives the same impression even based on Greek Mythology.

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         • That’s not what I meant…
           I said titans bring the image of Greek titans, you’re just proving my point.
           By hearing the word “Titan” I link it with the Greek titans. (I guess many other people do too)
           you probably have little to no knowledge regarding Greek titans, according to Greek mythology, Atlas(one of the titans) is the one who holds the whole globe on his shoulders. So calling those creatures titans is not… really accurate, they’re actually shrimps compared to the real titans.
           Also, the word “Titan” originally has no relation to size… let me quote from an article I found:
           “Hesiod claimed, the word Titan means “Strainer”, because they strained and performed some presumptuous, fearful deed and the vengeance would come after it.”
           I conclude that “Titan” is an old Greek word, “Eoten” is an old English word, no need to go further into that, since (I guess) you got the point.

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           • Regardless of what you think, you’ve clearly seen by now how the general reaction has been negative: whether TITANS stands from Greek mythos or not, *average* people (that is to say the biggest part of downloaders) get a better image of who these guys are if they are called Titans, and not Eoten.

             Sometimes when I’m with a lot of friends and I think they’re making the wrong decision, I’ll still just shut up and appeal to the broader amount of people. And I’m no cocksucker; I’m just appealing to the biggest number possible of friends. Usually, having 8 people pleased is a lot better than pleasing only myself.

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             • How do you manage to get every single comment you post stuck in moderation? :P

               “I’m no cocksucker; […] having 8 people pleased is a lot better than pleasing only myself.”

               Some choice words right there.

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               • hahahha bad choice of words indeed

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               • It’s because he doesn’t even bother to put in a fake email. If he just threw in something random, he wouldn’t be placed in Spam/Pending all the time.

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             • >*average* people (that is to say the biggest part of downloaders) get a better image of who these guys are if they are called Titans, and not Eoten.

               But rather than Titans or Eoten, wouldn’t Giants be much better? The claim that there’s no terrifying connotations with the word “giant” is ludicrous. Ever read BFG by Roald Dahl? Or hear of Jack and the Beanstalk? Or the tale that Jack and the Beanstalk was derived from, Jack the Giant Killer? And they even appear very often in the Old Testament, the most famous of which might be Goliath. Surely you’ve heard of him?

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     • Looking at the TVTropes page, I think it’s a proper noun in the original (though TVTropes has it as “3D Maneuver Gear”).

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       • Ah, tvtropes, the number one anime site on the internet.

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       • I believe it takes that from the English manga publications by Kodansha. A lot of people were talking about it when the various ep 1’s came out because the groups working on it used different terminology to the Kodansha manga (though don’t quote me on that – I didn’t research *that* thoroughly for our ep 1 :D)

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   • When you write the entire name it makes sense, not if you only says “maneuver”. It’s like writing “I’m using my Computer” because the machine is called a Personal Computer.

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     • If Personal Computer were a proper noun then that’d be correct.

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   • > Am I the only person who actually likes “eoten” … ?

     Pretty much, yup. Yupperoonie.

     ;oD

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     • Not the only person. Just that 1% minority.

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   • I thought “eoten” sounded kind of cool as well, and they are right that you don’t have to use the word “titan” to refer to them.

     But, what they did to the title screen was unforgivable.

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   • I have to look for the meaning of “eoten”. If you have English speaking dudes as a target audience, stick with the English term or a common term that is identifiable in any language. How can you convey the message if it is not easily understood? Like a joke that you have to explain why it is funny. You will get the joke but it is not funny anymore. In this case, the “shock” value is diminished.

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     • It’s pretty self-explanatory what Eoten are. It’s not like you have to guess what the hell they’re talking about.

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       • Then how is that any better than Kyojin? If it’s a meaningless word that you are only filling in through context, there’s no reason to replace the original word with something else.

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       • True that I can infer that the word “eoten” will mean the giant walking around the screen. Then its like selling cheese as “fromage” to people who don’t know the word. That is why I talked about target audience. You are doing English subtitles, use English words or words identifiable in any country.

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10. >I suppose Commie fancy themselves gg now.

    What? They weren’t a gg Crunchyripping subsidiary?

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11. How hard can it be to typeset this show. Same thing happens every episode. Should take 10 minutes to typeset. How do you mess it up?

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12. I’ve been watching commie for the Eoten

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    • Let’s be serious.

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      • I never realized that this would turn into a thing

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        • Liar.

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          • Let’s be serious

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            • I never realized that this would turn into a thing

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              • Liar.

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                • Let’s be serious.

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                  • I never realized that this would turn into a thing

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                    • Hello. :)

                    • :(

                    • What the fuck happened here and why did I only just find out

13. Oh, it’s started again

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    • Well, nothing did/does start. No Commie-butt-hurts, no fun. Though, I did skim the comments section in search for the flame war. I am disappoint.

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      • They’re on boycott since I don’t give them As for everything.

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14. The explanation for the show’s title was pretty good though. Took like 20 minutes to read. D:

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    • Am I the only one who enjoyed reading it?

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      • Depends what you mean by enjoy. I drew some amusement from the sheer hubris of the ramble, but I couldn’t bear to even skim more than half of it.

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        • Enjoy, as in, read all of it thoroughly while not getting bored or annoyed but actually smiling by the end of it.

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          • Huh. Was it supposed to be something other than a mildly concerning conversation with themself? The predominant thoughts coursing through my head while reading it are: “how haughty is this kid?”, “that’s some flawed and self-inflated logic there” and “what the fuck kind of human would write this shit?”.

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            • Answer: A Commie editor :D

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      • You are not alone.

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15. i think talking about raping is not good here, especially that you said bad stuff about muslims.

    i look forward to gg’s review. because i think it’s the best release for this show.

    anyway, about that title commie modified… is it done by using After Effects?

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    • > i think talking about raping is not good here,
      > especially that you said bad stuff about muslims.

      Any other things you’d like to take off the table for conversation there, Sparky? Cos, we wouldn’t want to offend your delicate fucking sensibilities, now would we?

      Dark_Sage lives in a country where his right to say pretty much *anything* is [still, the last time I checked] protected by the ultimate law of his land.

      I’ll go you one better: I’m a Scottish transplant who _also_ lives in that country – so I’m TWICE as likely to hit you up alongside your whinging, pewling, puritanical heid when you begin complaining about what may and may not be said, ‘here’ or anywhere else.

      Get camel-raped, whyn’tcha?

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      • Lol, why so mad?
        I think you’re over exaggerating here, he’s just stating his opinion (double standard anybody?), and it wasn’t the big point he wanted to convey in his comment…

        *Pro tip #1: Getting mad butt-hurt on every comment you see online that’s against what you believe/think is not really recommended to your health.

        *Pro tip #2: The internet is full people with different opinions, if you can’t handle that, simply get out.

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    • Muslim trash, plzgo

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      • You really hate Muslims I guess. Anyway EveTaku SnK review when?

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        • When I finish oppressing your people.

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      • So much hate for Muslims! What, did you get molested by one when you were 12? lel

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        • So much hate, indeed! Why, I’m practically stoning them to death with my mean internet insults.

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          • lel you’re fun. I like you… Honestly! If only your previous retarded comment were as smart and witty as this one.

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            • Come on now, that was just satire! Everyone knows I love Muslims almost as much as I love fansubs!

              Sorry for fooling ya; that’s just the kind of hilarity I’m known for.

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              • >as much as I love fansubs

                I’ll keep this kataomoi forever then ;_;

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              • >Everyone knows I love Muslims almost as much as I love fansubs!

                Yeah. Definitively you hate Muslims. Now I know.

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16. > Lol, why so mad?

    Sorry – I suppose it’s because I’ve had a bellyful of folk trying to limit what may or may-not be said on public fora. Particularly folk who have made it a habit to engage in death threats, riots, or bombings whenever they read-something / see-some-cartoon they don’t like.

    However, let me correct a misapprehension:

    > (double standard anybody?)

    Absolutely not. Intolerance OF Intolerance is not Intolerance. Ie: one is on solid ground if the only thing one cannot tolerate is Intolerance.

    Speaking of which:

    > *Pro tip #2: The internet is full [of] people
    > with different opinions, if you can’t handle
    > that, simply get out.

    Rather my point exactly, wasn’t it? Thank you for bringing things full circle. ;o)

    By the way:

    http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

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    • I think the stated overreaction was your interpretation of ‘I don’t like that rape joke you made’ or whatever that Engrish was as ‘you ought to self-censor anything potentially offensive’. Hounding someone for expressing their opinion and subsequently ranting about free speech does seem a little hypocritical, but I get your point. I do agree with you to a point, but voraciously attacking a weak statement of belief was quite over-the-top.

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      • well, yes this is what i meant “i think your joke is too offensive and bad to say to others” or something like it. it’s not necessary for the joke to be like that.

        and the tsundere comment after it was just epic… it made me laugh and say “brainless hater gonna brainlessly hate”.

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17. I do agree with Commie in the fact that both titan is a bad name for the monsters, and that Attack on Titan is an incredibly bad title translation.

    Not that it excuses the choice of ‘Eotena’, just sayin.

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18. Come to think of it, I think the “kyojin” in the title refers to Eren… I mean, wouldn’t it make sense, since Eren’s the only Titan who’s fighting for the humans? If I had to use a title, I’d go with “The Raging Titan” or some shit that sounds less gay than that.

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    • Well, your idea was certainly more accurate than any other translation as of 2013. The Japanese name actually alluded to a specific kind of Titan/Kyojin/Eoten.

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19. Oh, so this happened… I’ve been on the road and so away from the Internet. At any rate, you make excellent points on “We…” “I don’t think we learned to let a comrade fight alone!” and, “If this keeps up, it’s only a matter of time,” which is a really unforgivable generitranslation; my only excuse is that I wake up at 2:45am to edit this on a tight schedule (my Kotoura, which you liked a bit better, is what happens when I have more time), but such is an editor’s life. I’ll continue trying to improve.

    As for the other critiques, some of them (the sparse use of commas to mirror natural cadences, the odd capitalization rules, and especially my decision to put narration in the present tense as much as possible to make it more immediate and less “Last time, on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine”) respond to simple quirks of my writing that will probably never change, while others (especially “natural enemy” instead of “natural predator” and “had out with it,” which means what I meant it to mean but was part of a line the meaning of which I never fully understood) are the result of fansubbing as a collaborative process in which flaws and communication gaps often appear despite the best intentions of all involved: given more time such problems can be ironed out, but any superfast release is liable to see such issues.

    Regardless, you are quite justifiably critiquing the final product, not the process, and so you make fair points on all of these… except for “Stupidheads!” I am fully satisfied with that line. It’s Sasha, for goodness’ sake, trying to motivate her teammates with a sufficiently biting insult but, having the mentality of a 9-year-old, only able to call to mind a 9-year-old’s taunts.

    And regarding “Eoten” (which I have indeed declined according to OE rules, resulting in “Eotena,” “Eotenes,” and even the occasional “Eotenum”), I assure you I chose the word neither with any Trollish intent nor any view toward self-aggrandizement: I like Shingeki no Kyojin, I like the “feel” (and the significant history) of the word “eoten,” and I think the two go together like Ole and Sven. If you (and here, Dark_Sage, I switch over to the generic you) don’t agree, then by all means choose a different sub! The nimiety of choice in the modern fansub scene is an utterly glorious thing, and I encourage all to take advantage of it. No need for butthurt. I’m perfectly happy to be ignored.

    (Of course, if you don’t believe my claims and you’d rather construct me into a legendary gascon of vainglorious ostentation, that is also your prerogative. I won’t rebut you, but I will watch with some level of fascination. Just remember that, no matter how much you hate me, I don’t hate you.)

    That epic non-manifesto (perhaps you have noticed that concision was never my strong suit), by the way, was written purely for my own pleasure and not originally intended for public consumption (if I remember, after I jestingly shared it with Commie someone said “put this on the site!” and then it happened). I like English and I like playing with it, so I just do things like that sometimes.

    Back to my travels. Carry on, O Internet, carry on along thy great thriving road of conglomerative alterity and reductivist holism. Carry on!

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    • Okay, we’re back to the essays… TL;DR

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    • I like you. The amount of butthurt you’ve caused is goddamn remarkable. Don’t let the bastards get you down.

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      • Agreed.

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      • Agreeeed.

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    • Cheers Margaan! It’s always nice to see a mature response. Now keep them Ettins coming!

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    • You sure are a tryhard (but that’s not a bad thing).

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20. http://oi41.tinypic.com/73f149.jpg

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    • >none of the rest of us
      >enjoy you’re titans

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    • You could tell their editor is missing cause

      >you’re

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21. Ironically, the fansubber who pulled this shit doesn’t know jack shit about English considering eoten ISN’T A WORD!

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