90 thoughts on “Fansub Review: [Commie] Kyoukai no Kanata (Episode 03)”

1. >When something changes states, you no longer call it what it once was. Commie, FFF, and UTW would have you believe that ice once melted is still ice. If a phantasm/dreamshade/demon/youmu fucking crystallizes into a goddamn fist-sized rock, then yes. You do need to fucking differentiate it from those beasties still fucking roaming around. That is one of the goddamn basics of our fucking language.

   I’ve said this already, but the stones are simply referred to as “youmu” (or whatever word you’d like to use for it) in the show. They could have easily called them “stones” or “youmu’s remains”, but they did not.

   Calling things different words based on different states isn’t something that’s unique to English. If they’re going to continue to refer to the stones as “youmu” and nothing more, I’m going to assume they have a good reason for it.

   You just sound annoyed that only one group’s translation fits your personal vision of the show.

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   • It may not be unique to English, but it’s very clearly missing from whatever language you’re trying to use. If a youmu turns into a crystal when defeated, it’s very obviously not the same as it was before. How is this not painfully obvious to you? You can’t call it the exact same thing. If you took a car to a junkyard and it got compacted into a block of scrap, would you really look at the result and say “Wow, look at that Ford Pinto! I sure wanna drive that thing!”

     Wait… don’t answer that. You’ve already given me your answer.

     And why would I be annoyed that one group’s actually trying to put out a good release? I’m ecstatic. It’s hard to find subbers of value these days.

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     • Yes, clearly we are also not allowed to say things like “My father rests at the cemetery”, “I threw my TV away” or “That pie I ate didn’t agree with me”. These need to be replaced with the English, grammatically correct equivalents of “My father’s rotting corpse is buried at the cemetery”, “I threw away the burnt-out husk of electronics that was once my TV”, and “The semi-digested mass of protein in my stomach sure is giving me a hard time”.

       Thanks for setting the record straight.

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       • Those don’t actually refute my point. You’re just providing more descriptive versions of standard sentences.

         But to play along…
         A dead human is a body or ashes, or any number of other words.
         A thrown-away TV is trash.
         Food (that was consumed) is food that was consumed… until it turns into excrement or is absorbed by the body.

         Come now, Xythar, you can do better than that. Tell me why melted ice is actually just ice. I’d love to hear it. And if you could do it more angrily, that’d be great. Thanks <3

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         • Ice is just another form of water. You can use the word “ice” to refer to frozen water specifically, but you don’t have to. If someone says they found water on Mars, I hope you wouldn’t expect to find it there in liquid form.

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           • Well I didn’t think I’d get Xythar to admit it, folks, but yep, this is their actual argument. Ice is water. And ignorance is knowledge.

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             • Yes, ice is water.

               If you actually believe that statement is false, I recommend going back to high school and staying awake during science class this time.

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               • “Hey waiter, could I have some water in my water? This water’s too warm.”

                 Brilliant.

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                 • http://i.imgur.com/NO45rpd.png

                   In today’s News Least Likely To Surprise Anyone, you’re retarded.

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                   • It’s water all the way down.

                   • So much sexual tension.

             • Chemistry, man.

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     • I’m with Xythar on this one. Both English and Japanese distinguish between states of matter.

       However, the show itself uses the term “youmu” for both the monster form and the ore form. The author (writing this in a language that understands the idea of distinguishing states) chose not to differentiate between the two forms.

       Maybe there’s a reason for that in the narrative or maybe there isn’t, but this very clear fact means that there’s no real reason to necessitate distinguishing between the two forms in English.

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     • How is this not painfully obvious to you? You can’t call it the exact same thing. If you took a car to a junkyard and it got compacted into a block of scrap, would you really look at the result and say “Wow, look at that Ford Pinto! I sure wanna drive that thing!”

       While this is somewhat Devil’s Advocate, I think Xythar has a point. This is fiction, not reality. If I took a car to and got it compacted into a block of scrap, then no, I wouldn’t say “I sure want to drive that” (well maybe sarcastically). However, if it was a MAGIC Ford Pinto that didn’t burst into flame when I looked at it and also had other powers such that, after being compacted into an easily transportable block it’d could somehow self resurrect itself back to full drivability then that’d be different.

       Japanese does in fact have words for “crystal” or “stones” or “essence” or “remains” or whatever, they could have used them. That they didn’t shouldn’t simply be ignored out of hand, that smells very strongly of script writing, not translation, and script writing in a way that might foreseeably come back to bite you in the ass. It may turn out to be a plot point that these crystals are in fact full on youmu, they aren’t so much “defeated” as put into stasis or something.

       I get your point, but I don’t think you you should be quite so casual about tossing off the original language either in a case like this when it appears they chose some surprising terminology. Maybe they’re complete idiots, but then again maybe they actually plan to go somewhere with it.

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     • But wait, doesn’t that changing state/changing name thing only work for water? If you take any other element or compound, they’re just called liquid nitrogen or chlorine gas – or generally just given the same name in whatever form it’s in. I’m pretty sure water only has three different state names because we probably witnessed it in those states and named them before we figured out as a species that they were all the same base in different forms.

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       • I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. When a large change of state is effected upon an object, it is generally referred to by other names. For example, if an iceberg were chipped and a piece of it fell off, that piece would not also be an iceberg. If an egg is scrambled in a pan it is no longer “an egg”, it is “scrambled eggs”. When carbon is compressed, it is no longer “carbon”, but a diamond or coal.

         The very nature of English lacks in support for Xythar’s claims.

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         • I don’t think you mean change of state then – change of state only refers to solid->liquid->gas. And yes, I suppose we are more specific about things in English but taking your “scrambled egg” analogy, you could still call it egg. Though I agree that you’d usually have a moment where there’s a phrase like “a scrambled egg” starting the specificity and then using just “egg” after that.

           I dunno. I think that, considering this is a fantasy series and it’s a fantasy term and the term is the same in both situations, I’d give the subgroup the benefit of the doubt on this one. Going overboard with the editing element would be venturing into scriptwriting instead of actually translating the dialogue.

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           • A cute idea, but considering Mezashite translated it in a contextually accurate manner, I’m gonna say these groups just can’t handle translating. Not that I would expect them to.

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             • Well, that is until the big plot twist that it’s still a living phantasm-shade :O

               Srsly, these are the issues you get with still-airing shows – it’s hard to know which bits of a translation will turn out to be significant and which won’t.

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     • Do you have a problem with them saying
       “Well, I heard you defeated a phantasm”?

       Because that’s literally what they said, and makes sense in English.

       cf. “I killed someone last night”

       Or do you have a problem with them calling it “it” thereafter?

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2. Also, I really don’t get why you still insist that “cage” is a bad translation for 檻, especially when it refers to a specific kind of barrier that’s stronger, set around a certain area, and doesn’t allow anything in or out.

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   • Because this a cage:
     http://www.crymore.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/emilySone.jpg

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     • A barrier that keeps anything from going in or out, just like the show?

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       • No, a cage only keeps things from going out. The idea is that there’s a lock and it can be opened from the outside… and only from the outside.

         You… are aware of what a cage is, right?

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         • Yes, because anyone outside the cage automatically has the key.

           There’s a reason they sometimes put people into jail cells for protection.

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           • That doesn’t refute my statement. A prisoner would not be given the key to let himself out. Yet in this show, the context of your cage translation is that people create them from nothing to protect themselves and can dissolve them at will. That’s not a cage; that’s a barrier. I’ve already given you other vocab options: wall, barricade, boundary, and fold. Use one of those.

             I realize your pride is preventing you from accepting that your translation is inaccurate, but that shouldn’t affect providing your viewers with a quality experience. Suck it up and stop failing them.

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             • They use them to keep dangers either outside the cage or within one. They’ve mostly used them to accomplish the former so far, but they also have an application in confining dreamshades and other nasties. Hence their name.

               I’m not a translator, but I’m pretty sure I still know more Japanese than you, so forgive me if I don’t take your opinions on translation accuracy seriously – especially on a term that was already approved by three actual translators.

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               • Hey, I’ve taken Japanese 101 too, no need to get all snarky. Except, I took classes at an actual university and don’t like talking shit about languages I’m not fluent in. So, uhh, I guess that puts me a bit above you.

                 If part of the intent is to keep things away from people within the barrier, then “cage” is not an accurate term to use.

                 If the purpose is protection of the person inside the barrier and the barrier can be turned on or off by the person inside it, then you cannot call it a cage. I don’t care how many low-tiers you get to agree with you, reality isn’t so malleable.

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                 • >and don’t like talking shit about languages I’m not fluent in

                   Your reviews suggest otherwise.

                   Futsuu, 8thSin and Raze are low-tier? Keep fueling those delusions.

                   http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cage?s=t

                   Definition 2 here is exactly what the Japanese word means. If you’re not happy with a word that literally means “cage” or “jail cell” being used to refer to something that also protects the people inside it, take it up with the author. It’s not the translator or the editor’s job to rewrite elements of the story to something they personally believe makes more sense.

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                   • No, you’re right, it’s the translator’s job to translate. I guess your three pals don’t consider that to be part of their job description, though.

                     >2. anything that confines or imprisons; prison.

                     You can’t imprison yourself if you have the key to leave. Please, Xythar, try harder.

                   • By that logic, the moment anyone shuts themselves in a prison cell while still holding the key, it ceases to become a prison cell and must be referred to by an entirely different term.

                     However, this is far too much effort for someone so irrelevant, so I’m going to take my leave on this particular argument. Please continue to enjoy life in your own little world.

                   • In what universe does this happen often enough that you consider it an included portion of the word? You can’t rewrite the definition of prison cell to be “something that people often create around themselves with keys to get out whenever they want”.

                     I guess I should never have expected a competent argument from a call center employee. My mistake.

                 • >If the purpose is protection of the person inside the barrier and the barrier can be turned on or off by the person inside it, then you cannot call it a cage.

                   Shark Cage

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                   • Yes, we went over that. I didn’t find it to be a suitable example because in the show they also trapped youmu in with them, and that’s not what happens with sharks. Ultimately, “lion cage” is what brought me around to reluctantly accepting the idea as passable.

         • Should point out that there are cages that are used to keep things out, instead of keeping things in. Such as a shark proof cage used by divers and a Faraday cage used to block out electrical fields and electromagnetic radiation. So saying all cages are used to keep things in isn’t accurate.

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           • And that would be a valid argument if they never kept youmu inside the cages with them. Try again.

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             • I don’t have to try again, since a Faraday cage is a perfect example. It is used both to protect something from the outside and trap something on the inside. It can be used to prevent outside interference, such as the shielding of cables, and they can be used to trap in things like microwave radiation from leaving your microwave. Perhaps it is you who should try again.

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               • Is it used to trap things on the inside, like a human and a wild bear? Cuz if not, you clearly haven’t seen this series.

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                 • Have you ever seen a lion tamer at a circus? He has trapped both himself and a wild creature inside a cage that he has the key to. This is used to both keep the lion from going out and the audience from going in.

                   After the circus ends, the lion is put into a cage, that keeps it from going out and any people from going in.

                   At zoos, where the lions roam in an enclosure, there is often a cage the workers can walk out into to feed the lions without being in the open. This cage keeps the lions from going in while also keeping the workers from going out.

                   Cage is used to describe all of these things.

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                   • It’s a stretch, but I’ll take it. Reviews updated.

   • Isn’t barrier a good enough word? Thinking back to Shakugan no Shana, I think the fansubbers of the time used barrier to get the idea across (or did it have a specific fantasy name? I forget).

     D_S is right with the cage connotation. Cage suggests that it is physically keeping someone inside rather than suggesting a divide between inside and outside world. While the difference is slight, the inference is that whatever’s in the “cage” is involuntarily trapped, which wouldn’t work in this context, I’m guessing, having not seen the show.

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     • You’re correct.

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       • Except for when they use the word 結界 (kekkai) like they did in ep3, when you run into issues with using “barrier” for ori. We barely got around it by using “wide-range barrier” which is more of a description than a different term, but those are some of the issues with translating a series that’s still ongoing.

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         • I already offered alternate terms if you needed them. “cage” is a mistranslation of the highest offense. It flies in the face of anything resembling logic or intelligence.

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         • Kekkai (Buddhism) (結界), a word of Buddhist origin, commonly used in modern fiction to refer to a protective force field

           Force field works equally well in that circumstance :D

           Editing Rule #1: If you’re not sure, Google it.

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         • What about the fantasy fiction term, “ward”?

           Like “Harry Potter warded his trunk against stealing spells.” and “Harry Potter cast a ward around his house.”

           Then you can have your kekkai, ori and kago cake and eat it too.

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3. This doesn’t make sense. I get the impression you wanted to use “set” in the “set for a lifetime” sense, but that doesn’t really work on such a short timeframe. Use better language.

   “You could live like a king for year with the reward for that one,”

   >for year

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4. I think you’re having problems the script rather than translation ^^;

   The fact that “cages” keep things inside rather than keep things out has been discussed in Japanese boards as well.

   「檻」 in Japanese is just “cage”, “caged”, or nuances of “captured” or “trapped”. Nothing else. Maybe the author didn’t think it through, or maybe advanced casters use them to trap enemies during combat, but they work the other way than “barriers” as well. We don’t really know yet.

   It’s not a translator’s job to improve or change the script, especially for unique terminology. You don’t fuck with it because you never know what’ll happen and why the author chose this word instead of something else that sound nicer.

   IMO, this argument should be more like “should we keep youmu untranslated” or turn into “demon/ghost/darkness/monster + dream/phantasm” even though they all sound retarded.

   Only you’re working with “cage/jail/trap” for “ori”.

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   • Suggestion: Activate a trap card? ^___^

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   • I’d be fine with “ori”. “Cage” is literally wrong, though. I’d rather write a good script and dance my way around any future issues that may come up than write a bad one on the off-chance it’ll turn mediocre in the future.

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     • you should look at this Dark Sage…http://anime-kyokai.com/glossary/

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       • B-But translating the words is wrong; you should translate them into what YOU think fits better instead of what the author intended.

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         • 1:1 TLs best TLs

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           • Changing the meaning just because you don’t think it fits is best TLs.

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             • Even if you say that, it can’t be helped.

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             • The “meaning” remains unchanged, while the writing is improved with my suggestions. I realize it’s hard for waps to understand that Japanese:English isn’t nihongo banzai perfecto, but I’m not here to massage your back and tell you everything is all right when it ain’t.

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     • >“Cage” is literally wrong, though.
       Except 檻 means exactly the same as “cage”. It’s something you’d lock a wild animal in.
       http://tangorin.com/examples/檻
       https://www.google.com/search?q=檻&tbm=isch
       How could you possibly still think “cage” is a wrong translation? Calling these barriers 檻 is just as strange as calling them cages (because those words mean exactly the same, remember?), yet it’s what the author decided to call them. Go complain to him instead if it bothers you that much.

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       • Good to see people advocating for 1:1 translations. Means I still have a job to do.

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         • There’s a difference between awkward sentences resulting from 1:1 literal translations and using a completely different word for a key term because you think it fits better.

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           • At least my suggestions don’t result in inaccurate scripts. Be mad if you want, but whining won’t get you anywhere. Reality ain’t on your side.

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             • >At least my suggestions don’t result in inaccurate scripts.

               But they do. Frequently.

               You have a strange definition of “accuracy” that I suspect is shared by nobody else but you.

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               • >But they do. Frequently.

                 Perfect. I do so love account bets. Find me enough inaccuracies that even I will have to admit I can’t edit. You have 30 minutes. Don’t disappoint.

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                 • >Find me enough inaccuracies that even I will have to admit I can’t edit.

                   With the size of your ego, I’m pretty sure that’s impossible.

                   But don’t worry, I will continue to point them out as I see them. Someone has to hold you accountable.

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                   • I don’t think you quite understand the concept of an account bet. “Oh, you do bad things all the time but I somehow can’t come up with any examples.” is not going to cut it on a site where reality is solely dictated by reality.

                     20 minutes, so I’d suggest you get cracking.

                   • Please, feel free. Strike me down and your journey to the Kristen side will be complete.

                     User was one-day banned for talking out his ass and now thinks he’s pretty much Jesus for this post.

                   • >strike me down

                     It’s just a one-day vacation, but enjoy feeling like a martyr.

                   • why are you such a baby ds

                   • Your words are too cruel, aers. ;_;

                 • Dark_Sage seriously, who do you think you are?
                   You think that you can control peoples lives?
                   The fact that you think you can assume the right to force arbitrary timelimits upon people in which they must answer you or they get banned is simply astonishing.
                   Sure, this is your website and you can do whatever you want, but something this arrogant is as Kristen as it gets.

                   This is a random anime website, something you visit if you have nothing better to do. Do you think people should just stop whatever they are doing and get on whatever you think you can force them to do within 30 mins?

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                   • 

                   • I can taste the tears.

                   • Xythar why are you posting with a different name?

         • But 檻 means cage in Japanese, or more importantly is has the same connotation as the English word. It also means “jail” or “jail cell”, so it’s probably awkward in Japanese as well.

           1:1 TL’s are bad, but only because the connotations of words shift between languages. This time, that is not the case.

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     • >“Cage” is literally wrong, though.

       You know, you have multiple people who actually translate Japanese to English (and you certainly aren’t someone capable of that) disagreeing with you, yet for some reason you keep insisting that you are right. Same with the whole youmu stone thing. It’s not an issue to have a problem with the script of the show (which you clearly do), but it is a problem to insist that your scriptwriting suggestions would somehow be more “correct” translation, which is just plain and simply wrong.

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5. Holy shit the drama on this page is too damn high.

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   • Dark_Sage clearly pays Xythar to stir up shit so he gets more traffic on this site.

     Nice try, Xythar!

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     • I pretty much only let him stay around for the entertainment, yeah.

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6. I love this site.

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   • And I love this site’s readers. <3

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7. That J is perfectly fine cursive!

   This is actually the second time this month I see someone from the States complain about cursive. Is it really that hard to read for you? Isn’t it what’s taught in school?

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   • I’m from California, and I was taught D’Nealian cursive, so an I looks like this:
     

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     • I wonder what type of cursive it was that we learned. It’s surprisingly hard to find on google (I didn’t even realize there were several types.)

       Basically this:

       http://www.123rf.com/photo_10775022_hand-drawn-script-alphabet.html

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   • It’s no longer a required course in school and various states have dropped it completely from their curricula.

     Honestly, cursive is a dead form of writing relegated to the aged and dying. You won’t see any American fansubber stupid enough to put their karaoke entirely in italics. Pseudo-cursive, like Commie’s karaoke here, is about the best you’re gonna get. …And the best looks hideous.

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     • It’s probably for the best it is dying. It mostly just seems to ruin handwriting these days because few people actually write proper, full cursive. Most do some print/cursive bastardization that is impossible to read.

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     • “You won’t see any American fansubber stupid enough to put their karaoke entirely in karaoke.”
       I
       uh

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8. When are you going to review Chinese/Korean Anime?

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   • Isn’t that what I’ve been reviewing?

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     • I thought these were American Cartoons

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9. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/macabre

   Dark Sage pls. Death doesn’t necessarily have to be involved.
   ———
   Also there is nothing wrong with replacing “it” with the demonstrative pronoun “this”. However in this case “that” is a much better translation. In any case it’s a fail translation. Here’s what he actually said, then translated to literal English, then unhadenaized:

   空ろな影ですよ
   hollow shadow
   => The Hollow Shadow.

   あのクラスの妖夢が来るのは珍しいことです
   as for that class of youmu come, is an unusual event
   => It is unusual for youmu of that class to appear.
   ^ this is in fact what Horrible uses, so I assume that’s in the original CR script.

   They got the first bit right, but the second sentence butchered the meaning. Using the word “rarity” makes it sound like Halley’s Commit. You don’t investigate a rarity, you whip out a camera and some popcorn. A better translation is “unusual”. Also “Phantasms like this” doesn’t
   nearly convey the same information as “that class of youmu”.

   Aren’t Commie subs supposed to be CR-rips? Why did they make it worse…
   ———–

   凍結界に沈めたあります
   in a frozen barrier, it has been submerged.
   =>It’s been submerged into a frozen barrier.

   Sounds abrupt in the Japanese, why would the translator’s throw in an acknowledgement of
   what he said? If she was supposed to do that, she would have started with one of several
   phrases meaning “No” or “or rather” that frequent anime, this one included.

   The tense is however messed up. The way they have it now

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10. “Who taught you how to speak English? Singapore?”

    That’s a good one!

    …wait, I’m a Singaporean.

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