This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.
Figured I could just devote one post to the failures, as I certainly can’t imagine needing more than this one. After all, we have such a vibrant scene filled with so many worthwhile individuals. Surely there wouldn’t be more than a handful of groups misleading anime fans just to get more downloads as a self-designated badge of honor and/or means of making money!
[Chyuu] Blade & Soul (Episode 01)
For a lazy effort, Chyuu’s release wasn’t all that bad. But while they fixed most of CR’s stupid bullshit…
…their subs weren’t exactly perfect.
Still, since the only releases for this show are the [HorribleSubs] version and the [Chyuu] version, you may as well go with the slightly improved one… even if Chyuu’s subs don’t qualify for a standard review.
[Commie] No Game, No Life (Episode 02)
I had about as many expectations for Commie’s release passing this test as Commie’s families ever had of them.
Look at all the effort they put into this shit:
What a trustable fansub group.
I don’t see any point in waiting for a release that’s worse than the official subs. Go with Crunchy’s version or one of the other three groups on the show that have actual fansubbers on staff.
[DameDesuYo] Gokukoku no Brynhildr (Episode 03)
The primary changes from the Crunchyroll script that you get with the DDY release are added honorifics, a few term changes, and minor line tweaks. Basically, they saw the need for a wapanese Commie and just went for it.
And like Commie, they had some questionable changes. But easy mistakes are boring. Let me learn some of you something.
![[DameDesuYo] Gokukoku no Brynhildr - 03 (1280x720 10bit AAC) [2733E713].mkv_snapshot_12.31_[2014.04.28_23.59.22]](https://i0.wp.com/www.crymore.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/DameDesuYo-Gokukoku-no-Brynhildr-03-1280x720-10bit-AAC-2733E713.mkv_snapshot_12.31_2014.04.28_23.59.22.jpg)
![[DameDesuYo] Gokukoku no Brynhildr - 03 (1280x720 10bit AAC) [2733E713].mkv_snapshot_12.33_[2014.04.28_23.59.28]](https://i0.wp.com/www.crymore.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/DameDesuYo-Gokukoku-no-Brynhildr-03-1280x720-10bit-AAC-2733E713.mkv_snapshot_12.33_2014.04.28_23.59.28.jpg)
![[DameDesuYo] Gokukoku no Brynhildr - 03 (1280x720 10bit AAC) [2733E713].mkv_snapshot_12.35_[2014.04.28_23.59.34]](https://i0.wp.com/www.crymore.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/DameDesuYo-Gokukoku-no-Brynhildr-03-1280x720-10bit-AAC-2733E713.mkv_snapshot_12.35_2014.04.28_23.59.34.jpg)
![[DameDesuYo] Gokukoku no Brynhildr - 03 (1280x720 10bit AAC) [2733E713].mkv_snapshot_12.37_[2014.04.28_23.59.43]](https://i0.wp.com/www.crymore.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/DameDesuYo-Gokukoku-no-Brynhildr-03-1280x720-10bit-AAC-2733E713.mkv_snapshot_12.37_2014.04.28_23.59.43.jpg)
DDY switched the “a AA” from the CR script to “an AA”. But while that may make sense on paper, the important thing is how people will pronounce the “AA”. And in this context, it’s read as “double-A”. Similarly, the “AAA” would be read as “triple-A”. There are obvious exceptions to such a reading (for example, AA is read as “A A” when referring to Alcoholics Anonymous), but when talking about ranks, you’re going with doubles and triples.
For my ESL readers who are still confused about why DDY’s line is wrong, keep in mind that when deciding between “a” and “an”, the “a” goes to a consonant sound and the “an” goes to a vowel sound. So while it’s “a dog” and “an ant”, it’s also “an hour” and “a utility belt”. Welcome to superior English logic, friends. This is how we beat the Nazis.
[Flax] Baby Steps (Episode 03)
If you’re wondering why some of the lines are white here, that’s because white is the color for “everything matches up perfectly” in Notepad++’s compare plugin. Basically, you’ll only see this in comparisons where groups use the exact same font names, timing, and phrasing that CR did.
“Minimalistic editing”: truly fansubbing’s greatest innovation.
![[Flax] Baby Steps - 03 [0AD8B817].mkv_snapshot_15.55_[2014.04.29_00.11.59]](https://i0.wp.com/www.crymore.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Flax-Baby-Steps-03-0AD8B817.mkv_snapshot_15.55_2014.04.29_00.11.59.jpg)
And Flaxy is truly fansubbing’s greatest group.
[STiNX] Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei (Episode 03)
Yes, the only differences here were requests for translation checks (sometimes spelled incorrectly) that never actually occurred. Not a goddamn thing was changed beyond the timing, even though the Crunchyscript wasn’t all that great..
Maybe you should stick to distro, fgg. You clearly aren’t qualified for anything else.
.
There were a lot of disqualifications for only one season, but at least we capped out at five. Maybe the scene is back on the upswing. Come on, fellow fansubbers. I’m sure you can ganbarre your way back to relevance!
haruna is daijoubu
why can’t i into post pictures with html like our fansub critic dark sage
i clearly pasted the code
It’s BBCode, but don’t use IMG BBCode outside of the Off Topic page. Just post the link for normal posts.
http://i.imgur.com/l8qi3nG.jpg
:>
>ryuk
>begna
“Leave alive” (or leave this place alive, etc) is a pretty common expression as far as I know. The alternative would be having your corpse carried out, presumably headed for the graveyard, but either way you’re not staying there forever.
If you can think of a reason why having “alive” in there makes the line better, do let me know. Because as I’m reading it, it’s a redundancy.
It’s certainly not redundant. You can prevent someone from leaving a place without killing them, after all.
Beyond that, it’s just a more common turn of phrase for the situation, especially if the people in question are meant to sound threatening (it’s been a while since I watched the episode, so I don’t really remember if that’s the case). But either way, there is certainly nothing wrong with the line itself, and a Google search for “leave alive” or “leave this place alive” with the quotes will show that it’s quite commonly used.
Contextually, it is without value. There is no useful change of meaning with it in there. You could add a whole ‘nother sentence to that line without changing its meaning, and it wouldn’t be “wrong”, but it certainly wouldn’t be “right”. There’s something in editing known as brevity, and I’m not sure you’ve learned what that is just yet.
That doesn’t mean that shorter is automatically better, either. Assuming the audio length allows for it, that line sounds much better for me with the “alive” in there than without it, which is pretty much the same grounds you’re objecting to it on.
There is a difference between “I personally would have edited this differently” and “This is unequivocally wrong”, though I know you consider them the same thing because you believe yourself to be the sole arbiter of the English language and the best fansubber alive.
And you consider all my fixes wrong because I made you mad a year ago, so where does that leave us? You’re operating with a loose grasp of American English and a strong sense of persecution, which doesn’t exactly make your gut reactions trustworthy. The line is redundant, plain as day. Not sure why you don’t get that, but maybe I should repeat myself so you understand it better.
I consider your fix wrong because it takes a natural turn of phrase that frequently turns up in media and turns it into something less common. Don’t just take my word for it, though – feel free to ask other English speakers which line they prefer.
But yes, I can see how adding one word you disagree with made it so much worse than CR’s “It might have been bad she let one of the empire’s servants go.”
“other”. I don’t think anyone who speaks actual English has weighed in on that line. (Other than myself, of course.) But perhaps Aussieglish inefficiencies are the way forward in scriptwriting. Maybe it’s your time to shine, Xythar-chan~
Based on your reviews over the years, I’m really not convinced you didn’t migrate to the land of freedom from some random European country yourself. How many Zs did your surname have before your family changed it?
I’ve heard “leave alive,” “get away alive,” and other similar phrases before. It makes no sense, but >colloquialisms.
I believe the idea is that you leave in a body bag instead of as a living being.
Dude…Xythar’s right. Leaving [place] alive is a common turn of phrase.
I’ve got to side with Xythar on this one.
Like it or not, “leave alive” is a common phrase in English. Sure, it’s mostly common among terrible villain archetypes, but common nonetheless.
Surely, you’ve heard this line before:
“Sorry, but I can’t let you leave here alive.”
Now, in the show itself, if you just say “I shouldn’t have let him leave,” then that’s not very clear. I mean, I guess you could infer that he meant he should have killed him, but he also could have meant holding him captive or something like that.
By saying, “I shouldn’t have let him leave alive,” it’s clear what he means. He thinks he should have killed him.
I mean, I guess you could work around this by just saying “I should have killed him;” but I think that using the line in question is not only a perfectly acceptable colloquialism, but is more colorful in general (even if only just).
The problem you have with “I shouldn’t have let him leave” is very easily solved with a simple vowel substitution: “I shouldn’t have let him live.”
That could work, and it’s clearer than the former, but it’s still not the clearest sentence. Granted, perhaps it works better in the full context of the line (which I don’t know), but “I shouldn’t have let him live” doesn’t quite make the reason clear in and of itself. That said, neither does “I should have killed him,” but at least that has a greater sense of immediacy.
>”I shouldn’t have let him live” doesn’t quite make the reason clear in and of itself.
>”By saying, “I shouldn’t have let him leave alive,” it’s clear what he means. He thinks he should have killed him.”
Please explain how the former is any less clear about him thinking he should have killed him.
[And for the time being, let’s set aside the fact that I just implicitly condoned your vague pronoun references.]
The former gives no general time frame or motivation. He could have meant any period of time where he may have been able to kill him for whatever reason.
The latter is far more explicit, the motive typically being the acquisition of information or the moment he became a problem. It also tends to refer to a fairly recent event.
Yes, they both imply that he believes he should have killed them, but one implies more information than the other.
But now you’ve taken the two phrases out of the no-context scenario that you started out with and have begun comparing them in various hypothetical contexts. And since it would be rare for a given line in a TV show to not have context, arguing in general favor for a line that implies more than you know is a bit of a precarious position, don’t you think?
At this point, I’m really only arguing the lines outside of context, since we don’t have the full context available in this post.
If a line works in context, then I have no problem with it.
75k results for a two word phrase composed of otherwise common words is not a very good showing. The problem seems to be slippage from the seemingly similar phrase “left alive”, of which Google figures there to be hundreds of thousands of examples on the internet. It should be pretty clear that the meanings of the two conjugations of leave are different, “go away” versus “allow to remain”.
That’s because the more common expression adds a “here” in the middle. Type that in, and you’ll get plenty more results on Google.
So, I guess if you want be picky about it, he should add a “here” in there.
>I guess if you want be picky about it
If your argument—and the only argument, at that—for an expression is based on how popular it is, then the default among constructions with the same/similar meaning should be the most popular one.
“The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug.”
― Mark Twain
Except that, actually, putting “here” might not have even been appropriate in the first place, depending on the context.
So the less often used one might have been a better choice.
Not to mention the fact that “leave alive” really shouldn’t cause much confusion in the first place, especially if one already knows “leave here alive,” but that’s beside the point.
The issue isn’t confusion. To exaggerate: “I ain’t gonna put up with no more bullshit from you” isn’t confusing if you understand how native English speakers employ double-negatives. The problem is that if there isn’t a particular need to deviate from common English, it reads jarringly.
Maybe Blade & Soul has a necromancer class?
But, seriously, I’ve read a fair amount of fantasy/sci-fi/war fiction and never seen “let them leave alive”.
@Xythar: As an English speaker, I prefer the original CR line. It’s not a deal-breaking line the way some lines have been for me this seasons (like “Are you my parr?” in Seikoku no Dragonar), but it is redundant.
Not that I’m watching the show past that episode anyway, and if I do I’ll probably just watch without the subs because I get the feeling that knowing what they’re saying will just make that show worse.
Weird how that line actually looks wrong to me now. I thought it was fine when I first read it.
I think the fact that you called so much attention to it has something to do with that. XD
There’s actually a recognised phenomenon where any word or phrase loses meaning or sounds wrong if you look at it for too long. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_satiation or what the Japanese refer to as “gestaltzerfall”.
Cool, thanks for the link. ^_^
I literally found out what this was the other day when someone linked the wiki entry on an IRC channel.
Only just got to this little bit of dorama :D
I’m gonna come down in favour of D_S on this one, though not quite for the reasons he’s come out with. Let’s see if I can explain… It is a valid phrase, but it’s one you’d use as “I won’t let you leave this place alive!” or “We’re gonna have to use force to get outta here alive.” You wouldn’t “let” someone “leave alive” though I suppose you could say “leave with his/her life”. It’s a minor quibble, I realise, but I think it’s one of those phrases that could almost be right but in the context, sounds weird to a native ear on first listening (hence D_S’s reaction to it as well as everyone else’s, if you think about it).
Hope that made some kind of sense >.>
>are
>British
When I saw ‘Commie’ in the title and ‘disqualified’ in the tags, I cannot help but hoping for the best. For the comment section I mean.
You know it. Xythar always comes in to defend his ilk. He’s more predictable than a calendar.
What exactly would be “ilk” be here? Fansubbers? Human beings?
I don’t work on any of the shows listed, though I am the QC and backup editor for UW-FFF’s NGNL.
I meant fakesubbers, of course. I’m not sure why, but you’ve always been the most prominent defender of this cancer. Perhaps you could enlighten me on that.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ilk?s=t
How many fakesubs have you seen me be responsible for? Don’t strain yourself too hard remembering.
Are you no longer associated with Commie? Shit, call the presses. Xythar finally took RHE’s dick out of his mouth.
If I do recall correctly, you’ve defended a number of Commie “edits” as totally legit. And I don’t believe you have -ever- agreed that skipping edits for a show is anything but the best idea. If I’m wrong, please, point me to any of the fakesub reviews where you agreed that Commie was in the wrong. Fuck, I don’t think you even had the balls to call a spade a spade even when you were riding my dick.
I think you might need to go back and look up that “ilk” word one more time.
Ooh, that dodge. You’re making me Yuno face at myself here, Xythar.
My use of the term was accurate; you are part of the cancer killing fansubbing. So now that I’ve responded to you, why not humor me with an actual response? It’s 3 AM here and I’d love a bednight lullaby from you.
>Ooh, that dodge.
Speak for yourself.
>My use of the term was accurate; you are part of the cancer killing fansubbing.
Unless you can prove that I myself am a “fakesubber”, no, it was not.
I posted here with the intent to weigh in one one specific line, so I’m going to have to decline your efforts to muddy the waters.
No, no, no. Topic split here. See the great thing about owning Crymore is that I can Noah the waters anytime I want, so you don’t need to worry about derailing the thread.
So how about an answer, old friend? Sing me that melody of hypocrisy~
Well, I’ve got work in four hours. Feel free to whisper it to me as I sleep. Maybe you can formulate a response in that time.
I don’t think scripts need to be edited simply for the sake of editing. If a script is fine to begin with, leaving it alone is a valid option, and probably the safer one unless you’re working with a TLC. Obviously, lines that have issues should be fixed, but I rarely see you bring those up – it’s always just posting diffs as if not editing is an inherently bad thing.
Your stance, however, appears to be that not only is it wrong not to edit a script, but taking any stance other than “unconditional revulsion” means that you not only support the practice under all circumstances, but actively engage in it yourself. This is the only way I can imagine you arriving at the conclusion that fakesubbers who don’t edit scripts which need editing are my “ilk”.
And with that kind of logic, you should consider getting into politics. You’d make an excellent Republican.
I must say, Xythar, I half-expected some backpedaling. I’m a bit disappointed – and amused – that you dug your heels into the ground on this issue.
An editor’s job is not merely to make a script passable; an editor’s job is to make a script shine. Running spellcheck and calling it a day as your dear friends brainchild, RHE, jdp, and herkz do is not sufficient enough to make your releases notable in the least.
As for why it matters, there’s a reason fansubbing is on the decline, and it’s because of cancer like you. Take GeassGx’s post in the second disqualification post: “Though it looks like I shouldn’t even bother with fansubs as CR pretty much have everything cover by now.”
This is a mentality among the fandom that you and your comrades sought to create, and it’s why HorribleSubs does gangbuster numbers regardless of circumstance: People simply don’t see what you provide as valuable enough to wait for, or even spend time considering when you are faster.
Why should my little brother bother with your releases when he has Crunchyroll? Seriously, why? If your scripts are the same as CR’s, you have no real competitive advantage. And if you think typesetting is gonna win the people over, you’re even more delusional than I thought.
How about you put one iota of the effort you’ve spent into being a sycophant into figuring out how to make yourself relevant? Maybe then you’ll provide more value to the scene than being Crymore’s jester.
Actually, make that “unconditional condemnation”. That is the word I was looking for.
>As for why it matters, there’s a reason fansubbing is on the decline, and it’s because of cancer like you. Take GeassGx’s post in the second disqualification post: “Though it looks like I shouldn’t even bother with fansubs as CR pretty much have everything cover by now.”
Except my scripts are not the same as CR, and you know it. You’ve never reviewed a single “fakesub” by me, and I doubt you ever will.
You calling me a cancer? I edited nine shows last season that might have turned out as your precious “fakesubs” otherwise. How many did you edit? What have you done for this scene you clearly care for so much?
Xythar, what makes you say that? I was under the impression you subscribed to the notion that if a Crunchy script is good enough, it should never ever be changed. Where’s the cognitive dissonance coming from?
As for what I’ve done for the scene… are we just gonna stand here looking blankly at each other? Cuz I’m super humble if you didn’t already know. :<
I said it was a valid option, actually. In practice, I’m nitpicky enough that I end up editing most things anyway, but I certainly don’t mind if editors don’t want to fix what isn’t broken, and I would in fact prefer it to a script that edits a bunch of things unnecessarily and makes the script worse (eg Anime-Koi’s Soredemo Sekai ep1).
For an example of a lightly edited script that I thought was fine, see Chyuu’s Blade & Soul, where the worst thing you could point out was that they used the phrase “leave alive”. Similarly, I thought DDY’s Brynhildr was acceptable, and despite adding that one AA error, they also fixed several of CR’s if the comments are any indication (like how CR used “avalanche” to describe what was obviously a mudslide).
I feel like Commie’s NGNL could be more solidly edited (I remember several crappy lines from the CR script in ep2 that went untouched), along with Chihiro’s Soredemo Sekai and Hitsugi no Chaika (the latter had blatant errors unfixed and the timing practically gave me eyecancer), and I felt Anime-Koi’s Soredemo Sekai was over-edited if anything. I haven’t watched the rest, so no comment from me there.
And yes, I know, I’m sure you work on all these super-secret projects that you just can’t tell anyone about. Seems like a pretty good excuse for not doing shit these days while the people you hate on (like herkz) do ten times the work you ever did.
But no, despite my actual edits (over 500 episodes now and counting), your stance is that unless I unconditionally condemn the practice of “fakesubbing” in all cases, not only do I support each and every case of “fakesubbing”, but I somehow actively engage in it myself. That is why I said you’d make such a great Republican.
The reason I don’t begrudge groups their “fakesubbing” is because as long as the script isn’t actually edited to be worse, I’d rather watch a “fakesub” over HS any day. Clearly you feel otherwise. If you don’t like the direction the scene is taking, you know what’s even more effective than ranting about it on your blog? Getting in there and contributing to it yourself.
But of course ranting is far easier, and writing DQ posts is the easiest of all, which is why you write a bunch each season, review one or two shows, and pat yourself on the back for doing something when almost none of the actual people contributing to the scene give a shit about what you say anymore. To which I guess I say: have fun continuing to be useless?
I’m not sure whether you’re oblivious, or you want me to write a 3-page essay on how hilarious it is that you of all people are trying to act like I have had no influence on the scene, but either way I’m convinced you need to take a break from life and try out death for a while.
And for how much you read this site, you certainly don’t appear to have read much of it. Literacy: try it sometime (but do try the death thing first).
No, I don’t really care. Gonna do something productive like updating my list of edited episodes (up to 550 now and I haven’t even added this season yet!)
You may have had one day, but you have little no no influence on the scene anymore, and spending your time arguing with me in the blog comments isn’t gonna change that. Writing reviews might, and I’m sure getting involved would, but you and I both know that’s neither of those are gonna happen.
When this season ends with you dropping 90% of the reviews as per usual and not editing a single episode of anime yourself, maybe you should think back to this conversation and ask yourself why you cling to a hobby you’re clearly not interested in anymore.
Look at all the crows leaving this post. Flying away as fast as their desperate little wings will let them.
This is pretty much the first time I see Xythar-kun walk away from a discussion with DS as the winner. Man, this feels surreal.
To be honest, I don’t think there was really a winner here as both sides kept changing the topic without much closure for every topic, unless you mean Xythar giving up arguing whatever the fuck they were adjunct about.
To be honest, it felt like both sides shitting on each other, with Xythar forfeiting the shitting contest, which pretty much happens all the time because it’s kinda impossible for D_S to leave his own site.
To be honest, I don’t think there was really a winner here as both sides kept changing the topic without much closure for every topic, unless you mean Xythar giving up arguing whatever the fuck they were adjunct about.
To be honest, it felt like both sides shitting on each other, with Xythar forfeiting the shitting contest, which pretty much happens all the time because it’s kinda impossible for D_S to leave his own site.
To be honest, I need to find a better paragraph opener.
>it’s kinda impossible for D_S to leave his own site.
Except for when he does leave for like a month.
Oh yeah, and if you’re on Twitter and do this. He’ll block you pretty immediately or mad at you for several minutes because Reddit has been his only source for human interaction. I highly recommend this if you enjoy the tears and mad on this site.
And speaking of this site, this might be old “news” but I have to get back to other shit so, https://twitter.com/Xythar/status/461695173039124480
https://twitter.com/Xythar/status/461695302093643776
Somebody needs a trip to Good Time Island.
And by “this” I mean literally any criticism toward any brand he’s associated with or anything he’s worked on in any capacity whatsoever.
I’m pretty sure “leave alive” is perfectly fine. At least I think it is.
Also, A-Koi switched the “a AA” from the CR script to “an AA”.
A-K not doing that show.
Wrong group, my bad.
i wonder why Nyaa choose to give DDY an A+ than mezashite while DDY just edited CR script.
Because I checked both and determined DDY’s script to be better.
well, of course they are better than mezashite. DDY just edited the script while mezashite TL it by themself. even if they TL it by themself i don’t think they will better than mezashite.
And A+ goes to the better release. We don’t differentiate original translations from CR edits.
>better release
Yeah, I think it’s pretty clear that kind of differentiation ain’t your forte.
And now your adoring followers will never actually get to know which is better because you decided not to actually review it. A solid script is a solid script, no matter it’s source.
I do plan to review the HorribleSubs script. But no, you’re not getting credit for slapping your name on a release you had nothing of value to do with.
So then what you’re saying is that however you grade HS, we should take that score and add points to get to ours. Because even if the script isn’t rewritten, we do catch the awkward and badly written mistakes CR makes, add typesetting, correct timing and add OPED karaoke as well as improve the video (you know, the things that make ours a fansub release where HS is just an rip of official subs… wait, wasn’t this a fansub review site?). That’s really the only way that your stance can be interpreted: you don’t want to give us credit for the creation of a script when we didn’t create it.
I can respect that. But if you really expect us to make up script just to satisfy your need to not be similar to the original source, then you’re full of shit. I’d like to see you diffcheck every translator’s script to the edited version to make sure the editor rewrote it enough. Just imagine that CR/Funi are a really good translator that doesn’t need that much editing. Original translations are meant to be alternatives whereas CR/Funi edits are meant to improve the original. I really can’t think of any thing else in life where you would be encouraged to change something that is 90% right just so that it’s different from the original. Improve, yes. Remake, potentially incorrectly, no.
No, I’m saying you don’t even get that score. What, you want a handy for changing a filename? Sorry, but that ain’t how I operate.
If you can’t improve a script from how you found it, don’t expect me to sympathize. It’s your job to prove the changes you make to a release are worth a download over the original. If you can’t, well, you’re the reason the scene is the way it is.
>If you can’t improve a script from how you found it,
I pretty clearly just pointed out that a lot more than changing the filename was involved. And that we did improve the script. Evidently you can’t read.
Even the one “mistake” you pointed out is actually an improvement. Even if one were inclined to say “double A” in speech, it’s nonetheless spelled “AA.” Our viewers are reading, after all, not somehow hearing written words. The manga shows that it is written “AA” not double-A. Wikipedia for AA battery shows “an” should be used. A google ngram search shows an 800% advantage for “an AA” over “a AA” from even ten years before the battery name was created. In the case that you consider an AA class/rank to be more similar to an acronym or abbreviation than a battery, the use of a or an is dictated by the sound of the first letter as pronounced verbally as either a consonant or a vowel (as you pointed out in the review). If I have to explain to you that “AA” begins with a vowel sound then my concern for you might reach critical levels.
If we had decided to transcribe what we was literally said (as you often like to point out shouldn’t always be done when dealing with engrish in anime) as “an double A” in the subs, your point might be valid.
>well, you’re the reason the scene is the way it is.
Don’t blame fansubbers for Crunchyroll and Horriblesubs leading to a lack of translators and the “is it worth 12 hours of waiting for a release” mentality. That’s just childish and ignorant of you.
to quote you from further up the comment thread:
>Why should my little brother bother with your releases when he has Crunchyroll? Seriously, why? If your scripts are the same as CR’s, you have no real competitive advantage. And if you think typesetting is gonna win the people over, you’re even more delusional than I thought.
I’ve seen typesetting and karaoke win people over from crunchyroll. People that start off watching official subs, in particular, are amazed that an immersive rather than invasive subtitling experience exists. My own little brother is one of those people, in fact.
It’s funny to me that when you inform people that Horriblesubs is just ripped Crunchyroll, they’ll often get angry that they even exist and start watching fansubs instead or, in some rare cases in my experience, just pay for Crunchyroll. There is a very real misunderstanding among anime downloaders that Horriblesubs IS a fansub group that is just incredibly fast and that Horriblesubs styling/typesetting/timing/video is the quality they can expect from anything.
You’re making arguments based on multiple logical fallacies, like: the false assumptions that everyone is informed, that everyone would choose Horriblesubs (assuming they were informed), that everyone shares your ability to watch/suffer through Horriblesubs, and that the pure quantity of changes (excluding 60% of what makes it a fansub—encoding, timing, typesetting, translation checking, OPED karaoke) can be directly linked to the overall quality of a release.
>minor line tweaks
When almost, if not all, of those line tweaks result in a better flowing script, I would call that a reason to watch the release along with correct timing, typesetting, karaoke and dialogue styling/video that isn’t painful to watch.
You ask, “What is the competitive advantage of fansubs over Crunchyroll?” The answer is this experiential difference: the intention to provide a graceful, immersive, carefully considered alternative to what official licensors would have you believe are all that is possible such as: hardsubs (“Can’t have anyone who speaks Japanese enjoy the untouched art, now, can we?”), sloppy translation and editing (“We’re the only (legal) source and you probably don’t speak Japanese anyway so you don’t know any better.” e.g. Nourin), painful styling (yellow subs, horrible fonts, disruptive typesetting placement), etc. All of the same reasons that someone might prefer home-cooked meals to fast food or something handmade to something mass produced.
Your co-author on this site, kokujin-kun has a valid grading scheme for his translation reviews: a change resulting in a translation error will mean a failing grade. That’s fair in a translation review of official-edits. But you would rather take the opportunity to hopefully humiliate some fansubbers and attempt to “prove” via topic evasion that you are possessed of a higher intellect than everyone else.
Ultimately, Dark_Sage, your grading scale for “fakesub” needs to change. Pointing out detrimental changes are one thing but to claim that improving an already solid CR script is comparable to changing the filename is ridiculous especially on a “spot check” basis. Did you diffcheck every episode? Did you provide a full diffcheck report for readers to decide for themselves? Did you provide screenshots of the screens with the fewest edits possible (let me answer that one: yes)? Have you explained why you would prefer to review a similar and even marginally worse release for your audience that isn’t even from a fansub when they are here for comparisons of the quality of different fansub releases (probably because they actually do prefer to wait for the fansubs if they are better… wow!)? Do you actually intend to review fansubs anymore or have you been bought out by licensors to spend all your time spreading ill will towards us by calling our work fakesubs and pointing out that we take donations to cover very real costs?
>If we had decided to transcribe what we was literally said (as you often like to point out shouldn’t always be done when dealing with engrish in anime) as “an double A” in the subs, your point might be valid.
Let me ask you, when you call for car service, do you call for A A A, or do you call for Triple A? Probably the latter (assuming you’re from America, at least; if you aren’t I have no idea if AAA exists where you are). I don’t know about you, but if you ask me when I read “a AAA truck,” it makes more sense to me because I read it as “a triple A truck.” I think the reason why Wikipedia suggests “an AA battery” is because pronouncing it as “an A A battery” is common. I do it myself, actually. But when then accepted way to pronounce it includes a double or a triple or what have you, I think using “a” over “an” is the right choice.
Now, as for not being beholden to the Japanese’s use of English, I do agree that there’s a lot of times you need to alter the line from what’s said because they’re using words incorrectly. However, this does not mean that you should change the line every time out of principle. If their usage is correct, it just sounds better if you preserve it as is. I don’t think that saying “double A” over “A A” is incorrect.
>When almost, if not all, of those line tweaks result in a better flowing script, I would call that a reason to watch the release along with correct timing, typesetting, karaoke and dialogue styling/video that isn’t painful to watch.
I think we can all agree that if every one of your changes to the script, as well as typesetting and the like, is absolutely perfect, then that would make yours the better release (even if only by a small margin). However, there are a lot of people out there who aren’t inclined to wait for mere “small changes.” I’m guessing Dark_Sage falls in this category. I do agree with you and would prefer to watch a release with good typesetting, kara, chapters, possibly a better encode, even if the script was literally unchanged. A script that’s better than CR by leaps and bounds would be preferred, but if the original script isn’t unwatchable and if I want to watch the show badly enough, I would definitely choose a “fakesub” over official subs.
I’m also extraordinarily patient though, something which you can’t expect out of most people. I waited for Oyatsu to finish Log Horizon up until they dropped it because dammit, I chose them, they looked the best of all my options, and I don’t like changing groups mid-watch. I’m still waiting for Cthuko to finish Gatchaman Crowds as well. I suspect that the majority of viewers out there don’t share my patience. Even if I don’t personally agree with it, Dark_Sage’s view is perfectly valid. If he doesn’t see the reason to wait for minor improvements, that’s actually pretty normal. It’s not like he’s saying “no one should watch these fakesubs ever for any reason,” he even recommended Chyuu for Blade and Soul if you’re willing to wait. He’s just pointing out that these are relatively low-effort releases that add little to the enjoyment of the script (and considering editing is his specialty, this is kinda what you’d expect him to focus on) and that if you aren’t inclined to wait, don’t. There’s nothing wrong with that.
That was inspiring. Sasuga benga!
A few things, benga. First, when scripts are extremely similar, I don’t see why every script should be reviewed. The scripts themselves would all get the same grade, and time would be wasted on doing the same review however many times are there are groups that did a CR not-edit. Second, you’re actually using Wikipedia as your source for how English works. “An AA” is wrong, because people would most often say that as “double A.” That’s the bottom line here. If you can’t understand how people actually speak English, maybe you should just leave the scene. Now on the topic of kokujin’s style vs D_S’s, are you saying you’d rather he just failed your release on the spot after seeing the “AA” line? That’s the editing equivalent to what koku does. If that’s how you’d like to see these done, I’m sure D_S would be more than happy to change almost all of his DQs ever to Fs.
Now to talk to a few other people here because I’m too lazy to make multiple responses.
Dark_Sage, “leave alive” is a common enough phrase to be considered not an error. Plenty of other English speakers have weighed in on this already in these comments, and they’re correct.
Xythar, you may as well stop coming back. We get it. When you argue with D_S it turns into a series of dodges resulting in an argument that possesses no value whatsoever. That’s what happens every time. For my thoughts on why scripts that aren’t edited don’t deserve reviews, just look up a little. Yes, people will often still prefer a “fakesub” for its visuals, and that’s fine. This blog’s primary focus is editing and script reviews, and if multiple scripts are essentially the same there’s no point in reviewing them all as separate releases.
To add to HA’s post, if there’s any discrepancy with “AA” in particular, it’s that “AA” is usually an acronym. So, most of the time, it’s “an AA,” because it’s probably more often used in the sense of:
“Hey, I had an AA meeting earlier this week. I might actually quit this time!”
But you always, and I mean ALWAYS use “a” or “an” based exclusively on how it sounds, not how it reads. That’s why we say “an hour,” “a NASA engineer,” and “an NAACP award.”
If “AA” here sounds like “Double A,” then you have to use “a” for the article.
>When you argue with D_S it turns into a series of dodges resulting in an argument that possesses no value whatsoever.
The only reason I posted on this article in the first place was to comment on the “leave alive” line. If you’re tired of reading these arguments, maybe you should ask the other party in the conversation to refrain from being pointlessly antagonistic and throwing out unfounded assertions about my work. But somehow I don’t think that’s going to happen, so you may want to get used to this.
Anon, HA, nyangoro: Personally, I say AA battery and know other people that do as well. I have used the term AA rank in games and multiple people I’ve asked with no context of my position have agreed they would say AA not double. And AAA actually markets itself as triple A so that’s different. At the end of the day, this either falls strictly under the set rules of grammar (using an because we wrote AA not double) or else it is a fringe case that is so seldom said or considered that it has never been important enough to merit an established rule. Regardless of which case it may be, if that is supposed to be the mistake that exemplifies the release, it’s incredibly misleading. At worst, it’s a non-mistake and, at best, an improvement. (Also, side note, wikipedia really is a valid source of information. This isn’t the ninties anymore.)
Anon: I’m not saying D_S has to watch us for the show every week. He claims we did nothing of value to the script or the release and called it changing the filename. That simply isnt true. The improvements may not be of value to him but that’s not what viewers of a fansub review blog care about. They want to see the reviews to know which fansub release is best. That’s the reason I used to get on crymore, at least: to see if my choice of sub group was the right one simply because I don’t compare them myself. These days I apparently get on to have D_S waste my time and be accused of making money by fansubbing when all of us (except D_S) know that no one is turning a profit on fansubs.
Anon, HA: D_S begged the question of what value is provided over crunchyroll so that he should review it. I answered that pretty well I believe. By calling it fakesub he is essentially saying you shouldn’t watch it (which is why he had to specify that wasn’t the case for Chyuu’s B&S) and by simply posting diffcheck screenshots, he’s not even hinting at the quality.
As I concluded originally, his scale/system ought to change. Even if he doesn’t want to review every crunchyroll edit individually, there is still value in comparing the quality of the edits because, you know, viewers still want to know which one is better. Hell, call it a HS-edit party and compare every CR edit to the original for key lines plus watchability; mock the ones that don’t fix CR’s glaring mistakes or actually make a release worse. Finish with “better than original” = pass, “worse than original” = fail. That would be more to the point and more informative (and that’s really all the translation parties are anyway) while still allowing him to batch process them instead of putting out fakereviws like these.
Really? Maybe it’s a regional thing, because I have never heard anyone refer to either the ranking/grade or battery by saying “AA” as opposed to “Double A.” Interesting.
>I say AA battery and know other people that do as well.
Like I said, I say it that way too. That doesn’t make Double A wrong though, and we’re not talking about batteries here. They chose to say Double A, which I would say is valid and doesn’t need to be changed. With that in mind, I would say “a AA magician” is more correct than “an AA magician.” You’re welcome to hold the opinion that it needs to be changed from Double A to A A, but in the eyes of the one reviewing the script (Dark_Sage), this detracts from the original script, and it seems like everyone else who’s weighed in thus far agrees. Disagree with that assessment all you like, but I don’t think you’re going to change any minds.
>He claims we did nothing of value to the script or the release and called it changing the filename. That simply isnt true.
The changes were so minor as to not bear going into great detail over them. Like I said, they could have all been an improvement over the original script, but if they don’t make any significant difference, there’s no reason for a person who wants their anime faster to pick a fakesub over the official subs. Minor fixes just aren’t that compelling to someone who values speed.
As for your HS-edit party idea…I was under the impression that’s exactly what he was doing here. Groups together a bunch of subs and points out some of the changes he thinks worked or didn’t. It’s not impossible for a fakesub to be better than official subs, but the numbers that HorribleSubs pulls prove that people value speed more-so than quality. Minor improvements and some nice typesetting aren’t going to convince them to switch. Again, I’d watch a good fakesub over official subs no question, but I think I’m in the minority with that opinion, and I’d certainly prefer a much better script than Crunchyroll and the like often provide. I’ve got no issue with not making edits just to say you did when the script is perfect, but you’re not going to see a whole lot of perfect scripts.
It’s pointless to ask for a review unless there are a lot of changes. Even assuming every change improves the script, if you don’t change a lot of lines it would be annoying to hunt down the changes and see whether they improve the script or not, and then to see whether or not they improve the script over the grade the original script would have gotten.
Personally, I’m willing to wait any length of time for superior subs – for instance, I’m still waiting for Hyobu – but I’m not going to notice the difference when the edits don’t 1) change any of the setting’s important terms (a number of groups used different terms for youmu and such in kyoukai no kanata, for instance); 2) fix obvious, glaring translation errors; 3) make enough minor edits that improve the script that there’s an improvement at least every other line.
Obviously, if none of those three is necessary in the first place, I’m probably going to be fine with the CR script, since the anime itself is the main reason for watching and not the sub track.
I get that you shouldn’t make changes if they’re not necessary, but you shouldn’t be upset when Dark_Sage decides that he won’t review your script because of that.
>Did you provide a full diffcheck report for readers to decide for themselves?
Dark_Sage, since you’re doing diffchecks for yourself anyway, you can provide the comparison as a download for notepad++ so viewers can see the differences themselves, right? I think that would provide some fairness both for the groups and for the people who like the CR script but would also like karaoke/etc.
Hopefully you’ve already done the last fakesub disqualification review for this season, but it might be helpful in the future.
Fuwaa: i’m not upset that he didn’t and won’t review our release. But Dark_Sage has equated quality with number of edits or being an original translation:
>>better release
>Yeah, I think it’s pretty clear that kind of differentiation ain’t your forte.
I’d like to use my own group’s shitty first season of original translations on Watamote and Love Lab as examples. Original translation does not equate to better release. I wasn’t even going to get involved here until I saw that with little more than a diffcheck D_S claimed to know which release is best when Xythar and other nyaamods at least take the time to compare every release in a real attempt to identify the best subs.
The point of these “fakesub” reviews so far has been to fan D_S’s ego, make it appear like he still operates a fansub review site and stir up drama.
On that note, I’m going to leave this discussion. I’ve got filenames to change. That shit doesn’t happen on it’s own, ya know.
I’m not going to even look at these walls of text, because I’m pretty sure it’d be a waste of time. But when I was browsing through the comments queue on break, I think begna was bitching and moaning about me censoring posts or something.
So begna, no. I typically let people post whatever the hell they want. I’ll delete posts if people wanna play games with me, but otherwise I leave their stupidity out for the world to see.
If you ever have a post that doesn’t appear immediately, that’s either because the system marks it as pending (every few hours I approve all the pendings except for spam) or spam (which depending on how deep the spam queue is means I’ll either dive through it, looking for real posts, or just delete the whole thing because I’m not looking through 3,000 comments on the offchance one is legit).
I’m not gonna fucking hide your posts because I “can’t handle the truth”. It’s just akismet being akismet.
“Better” release? Why not change the label to “recommended release” instead of “A+ release” if that is the case?
Nyaa staff causes unnecessary drama by that label.
The term is clearly defined on the help page.
You guys define the term but you don’t explain why you call it A+ over possible alternatives.
Don’t worry so much about it. Anyone with thought processes is aware of what the A+ system really is.
It’s used by Commie and Vivid devs in an attempt to herd the sheep toward their releases. UTW will always get it, because there will be a sheep uprising if they don’t; Underwater will get it because of Daiz; and other groups will get it when Commie or Vivid aren’t subbing those particular shows. Just ignore it and choose what you think is the best release.
And by the way, you can’t actually criticise the A+ system on Nyaa. If you do, then your comments are removed along with your commenting privileges. Still, it’s their website, so they can run it like a fascist state if they want to.
That so? You may want to see if the A+ assignments this season match your pattern.
Besides forgetting to include FFF in his list, he’s pretty much dead on. FBI for Mahouka, FFF for Love Live, Date a Live, Dragonar and Ryuugajou Nanana no Maizoukin, Commie for Jojo, Ping Pong, Haikyuu and Bokura wa Minna Kawaisou, UTW for the new Puchimas, Vivid for Isshuukan Friends and Mushishi Zoku Shou, Vivid-Taku for Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu Ka and Underwater for Atelier and Kanojo ga Flag wo Oraretara. And other groups that have blue releases are competing with none of the above groups on those shows! Wow, it really DOES match the pattern!
b-but… Nobody else except Commie does Bokura wa Minna Kawaisou ;( Same goes with Gochuumon wa usagi Desu Ka.
:<
>and other groups will get it when Commie or Vivid aren’t subbing those particular shows.
I didn’t forget them. They fall into the above category.
Huh? I proved your point, that’s all.
Edit: just realized what you meant. No, no, no. FFF is one of the groups you need to mention in that list, as FFF is at the very least capable of beating out Commie in some cases.
Yeah, but this isn’t about group capabilities. It’s about which groups are actually given A+ status.
We consider as many groups as possible. This season we recruited additional mods to help with the process (and I have a bit more time to spare as well) and the A+ has gone out to groups like DameDesuYo and Chihiro when deserved as well as to new groups like Chyuu.
Yes, groups like Underwater get A+ quite often, but that’s simply because their releases are quite often the best. Again, if you disagree, you’re always welcome to challenge any A+ decision with appropriate evidence.
I meant beat out in the race for A+ status, not any actual measurement of quality.
Oh, is there going to be a major deviation this season, then? They’ve matched it perfectly so far. And are you’re conceding that my “pattern” is accurate for previous seasons? It’s easy enough to prove.
There are a number of Commie and Underwater releases this season that are unlikely to receive A+ as things are currently going, though they are mostly out of my hands.
I’d rather see you prove that A+ is going to releases that don’t deserve it. We’re open to challenges regarding those decisions if you can get sufficient evidence together.
Which groups “deserve” A+ status is entirely subjective and is exactly what’s wrong with your stupid A+ system. You and your cronies continue to give A+ status to your own groups, and, despite what you say, I believe that you do so without bothering to give other groups a fair chance. My “pattern” proves this. But like I said, it’s your website, so if that’s the way that you want to run things, then your entitled to.
I’ve noted that you haven’t actually attempted to refute any of my points, though.
*you’re
It’s late.
>I believe that you do so without bothering to give other groups a fair chance.
http://www.nyaa.se/?page=search&cats=0_0&filter=3&term=dame|asenshi|koi|watashi|kdfss|taku|whynot|chihiro|scribbles|chyuu|hiryuu|rori|sage
Uh huh?
>I’ve noted that you haven’t actually attempted to refute any of my points, though.
What point? That the more consistently good groups put out the overall best release more often? No shit, Sherlock.
Copy and paste that link.
It’s not subjective, but what would some anonymous armchair subber know. Go believe we fabricate these judgments. Go believe we faked the moon landing, that 9/11 was an inside job or whatever floats your bote.
>Which groups “deserve” A+ status is entirely subjective and is exactly what’s wrong with your stupid A+ system. You and your cronies continue to give A+ status to your own groups, and, despite what you say, I believe that you do so without bothering to give other groups a fair chance. My “pattern” proves this. But like I said, it’s your website, so if that’s the way that you want to run things, then your entitled to.
Are you retarded by any chance? They do give them a chance, but mostly all the time the other group is better. e.g Underwater Kanojo flag is by far better than A-K. Can’t say much for Black Bullet/NGNL, but I’ve enjoyed them more than the other releases put up thus far.
As Xythar said, plenty of groups have gotten A+ that have no relation to any members of the other group.
@fnord Why is it that whenever Xythar is jizzing all over himself in here, either you or Lae will show up for a mouthful, too? And of course it’s subjective; it’s someone’s opinion. Someone decides whether or not groups are given A+ status based on their personal perception. It’s not fucking science, is it? I can’t believe that I actually have to explain that.
@Solaristics Your editing and QCing is terrible, so you shouldn’t really be allowed to have an opinion about fansubbing. It’s relatively ironic that you’ll refer to someone else as “retarded”.
“Your editing and QCing is terrible, so you shouldn’t really be allowed to have an opinion about fansubbing. It’s relatively ironic that you’ll refer to someone else as “retarded”.”
“Don’t be so judgmental, evil NyaaTorrents empire!”
So, uh, Mr. Bushman, what have your great contributions been to fansubbing to have earned the right to state your opinion?
I haven’t referred to anyone else as retarded, though, have I? I’ve criticised your A+ system, but I’ve acknowledged that it’s yours to do with as you like.
I refuse to reply seriously to someone whose opinion amounts to hearsay, theories and stabs in the dark.
Also, it’s amusing to see YOU being so self-righteous, Xythar.
>I haven’t referred to anyone else as retarded, though, have I? I’ve criticised your A+ system, but I’ve acknowledged that it’s yours to do with as you like.
No, but it’s hilarious that you’d try to shut someone out based on criteria that applies double to you.
And what exactly is your criticism? “I don’t agree with every single decision you made, so it’s wrong”?
>Also, it’s amusing to see YOU being so self-righteous, Xythar.
Why? When have I been anything but?
@Solaristics Your editing and QCing is terrible, so you shouldn’t really be allowed to have an opinion about fansubbing. It’s relatively ironic that you’ll refer to someone else as “retarded”.
I won’t deny that my editing can be over-the-top sometimes, but sadly your opinion doesn’t mean much. Especially for a leecher that can’t even get his own facts straight. How about searching some stuff out before making accusations? Or is that too much for some kid with down syndrome?
>allowed to have an opinion about fansubbing. It’s relatively ironic that you’ll refer to someone else as “retarded”.”
And sorry to tell you, but I’m allowed to have an opinion. Maybe you shouldn’t have an opinion, all you do is leech, right? Or are you hiding behind some fake name and does something in the scene? Let me guess, no?
and xythar, if the groups that edited CR scripts are better than groups that TL it themself, then all of the groups that doing CR edit deserved A+ don’t you think.
That’s not what I said at all.
A+ goes to the best group, decided on a show-by-show basis. We don’t differentiate between original TLs and simulcast edits.
Notepad++ <3
Didn't realize it could be used for destroying the self esteem of fansubbers as well. XD
>This is how we beat the Nazis.
I’m pretty sure you beat the Nazis because Hitler was stupid.
…Oh, that’s what you meant.
Welp. You couldn’t have picked a worse episode to look at, Sage. I was pretty preoccupied with Easter and studying for my finals, so I couldn’t spend much time on Brynhildr. I really wanted to spend more time on, but it is what it is.
nice reason to dodge your fault.
What dodge? I just explained why the episode had less editing than my usual work.
I don’t see how I said it wasn’t my fault.
I will forgive you if your taste in candy is as superior as mine is. Russel Stover’s marshmallow eggs FTW, amirite?
I’m at work so I don’t have enough time to reply to all these comments, so I’m just gonna mention that I’ll come up with a post to address all these fucking tears over fakesubs.
Okay, now that I’ve spent my valuable 30 seconds, I’ve gotta get back to pretending to jack off so my boss doesn’t think anything’s amiss.
lmfao look at this guy go fake sub reviews all over the place HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA look at this shit I bet all the fansub groups are just doing this to piss you off DarkSage
I made a list of A+ releases and started to write a rant about the poor state of fansubs, but then I realized that it wasn’t worth my time. I’m also not as eloquent a writer as, say, D_S so nobody would’ve read it anyway.
My conclusion was that, rather than Nyaa’s A+ being any sort of conspiracy, the fansubs are quite mediocre all around. Giving NyaaTorrents the benefit of doubt, their color-coding system is misguided and ends up benefitting no one but the groups that get A+/trusted status.
For anyone is interested the list, I’m leaving it here seeing as I already made it:
https://privatepaste.com/69e306c9f9
They are what they are. A+ is simply the mark of what we consider the best quality release for a show that meets a certain minimum standard of quality decided by us.
If you’re not happy with the state of fansubs as they are, I can only suggest that you get involved and do something about it yourself. Either you’ll improve the scene as a whole by putting out better quality releases or you’ll gain a little more understanding for why fansubs are how they are to begin with.
Exactly. Can’t criticize how Nyaa reviews releases until you review releases for Nyaa yourself. Geez, can’t you plebs understand logic?
It’s okay. Xythar has assured me that it’s all above board. What’s not to trust?
“My conclusion was that, rather than Nyaa’s A+ being any sort of conspiracy, the fansubs are quite mediocre all around.”
“It’s okay. Xythar has assured me that it’s all above board. What’s not to trust?”
You might want to actually read the posts you’re replying to before you jump at the chance to act like a smartass.
I was responding to Dark_Sage’s subtext. You really are fucking thick, aren’t you?
Then both of you are basically shitposting over an unrelated discussion. Want a cookie?
Yeah, well, you’re a wanker.
I was referring to his lamentation about the “poor state of fansubs”. Geez, can’t you understand English?
And I was working off the logic behind your “If you’re not happy with the state of fansubs as they are, I can only suggest that you get involved and do something about it yourself.” statement.
What, you didn’t think you’d be called out on it? You’re so precious, Xythar.
How does “the state of fansubs” have anything to do with the NT review process?
My point is: if you think fansubbing is in a bad way, get involved and improve it. I know that’s a foreign idea to you, but it’s honestly what I believe in.
“The state of fansubs” was referring to the number of fansubs this season that D_S is disqualifying. Since CR and the like virually have a monopoly on translations, there are fewer fan translations now than there have been in the past. I feel that this has caused fansubs to be quite bland. Groups like gg, ignoring the actual quality of their translations, occasionally added their own flavour to subs that you don’t get from professional translations. Apart from superficial things such as font choice, karaoke, and typesetting, there isn’t much now that distinguishes fansubs from official sources. This is probably a bad argument though, since the quality of these things have always been what separated anime fansubs from other subbing communities.
Anyway, I guess my point was that the NT review process is misguided in that there isn’t actually much to review, since most fansubs now are sourced from Horrible.
Keep baiting and eventually I’ll bite.
Sure, Xythar. Mr. Expert Fansubber, why don’t you tell me how little of an impact Crymore/Whiners had on the scene when:
A. You don’t know what the scene was even like before my blog.
B. You only joined the scene because of Whiners.
C. You learned all you know about editing by trying to copy my swagger.
D. Everything you did pre-Tamako Market was a desperate attempt to be recognized here.
I mean, holy shit, Xythar. Even Holocaust deniers don’t try to revise history this much.
Wow.
I always knew you were delusional, but… Wow.
What.
Evidence please?
(mainly because I haven’t been here long enough to see Xythar’s early days at Crymore and I really can’t be bothered to look and analyze every single comment of his.)
http://www.crymore.net/2011/04/09/fansub-review-gg-dororon-enma-kun-meramera/comment-page-1/#comment-2416
As you can see from the very first comment I ever left here, I viewed D_S with nothing short of worshipful reverence back in those days. His word was clearly law; his reviews, flawless.
Wow. Well said two-years-ago xythar. Also, incredibly on topic lol. Guess crymore hasn’t changed a bit. Well except for the lack of reviews these days.
Over three now, in fact!
Oh, I remember that comment now!
>But seriously, it’d be nice to see more insight than what just amounts to a post-release QC pass. Why do you think the subs were good overall, etc? What are some examples of lines that worked?
Looks like you actually influenced his reviews here.
Heh. Guess I can’t math after 48 hours programming with no sleep.
Left a reply to this but I think it got spam filtered. I guess she’ll show up when she shows up.
Are you sure it’s the spam filter? (¬‿¬)(kidding, D_S)
Also I’m kinda wondering what you were about to say. Did you screenshot it prior to submitting the comment?
I’m wondering why you always try to defend an accusation of “these subs are shit” with “well then do something about it”
Because that’s not actually a defence at all. In fact many people will recognize it as a concession.
Why do you think I’m treating it as an accusation at all? It’s not like I work on every release out there, nor am I responsible for fansubbing as a whole. It’s simply advice.
If you’re unhappy with the state of fansubs, you have two options available to you:
1) complain about it on a blog and achieve nothing
2) get in there and do something about it yourself
I find 2) a lot more satisfying, but maybe that’s just me. If I’m unhappy with the choices for a show I like, instead of bitching about the choices available, I sub it myself.
3) learn enough japanese that you don’t need subs
4) stop watching anime
5) Watch Dark_Sage call them fakesubs and enjoy the ensuing drama as Xythar inevitably gets involved.
More than two options, and you can even do any combination including all if you want.
2) and 4) should be mutually exclusive.
Then again, there are groups who have translation mistakes that are fairly obvious from just watching the episode. So maybe there is actually people doing that … :D
I do all five, so none of them are mutually exclusive.
My issue with A+ designation is that it doesn’t really have a defined audience. The vast majority of people will go with the fastest group, while others have favorite groups. The people who actually care about quality will wait for the BD reencoders to do their thing, and these releases almost undoubtedly trump TV releases in quality.
I was actually a QC for a couple years, and I believe that speedsubs aren’t really needed anymore since they can’t compete with legal alternatives in terms of speed, with marginal improvement in quality. (There are tons of old shows that few groups are interested in subbing because there isn’t a large demand for them, but oldsubs groups are not really a topic of this site.)
I believe there are people out there that, much like me, want to go with the best possible group for each show. The A+ is meant to help people like that who may not be able to make an informed decision on their own due to lack of Japanese knowledge, etc. You’re free to heed or ignore it as you wish.
BD releases are actually pretty bad in general unless they’re done by TV groups (who actually know what they’re doing), but that’s neither here nor there, I suppose.
Anyway, I certainly don’t begrudge you your opinion, but there is definitely a place for high-quality speedsubs in the current scene, and I and many others appreciate that they exist. The differences in quality are often far more than “marginal”, especially where particularly bad simulcasts are concerned (of which there are inevitably several every season).
>BD releases are actually pretty bad in general unless they’re done by TV groups (who actually know what they’re doing), but that’s neither here nor there, I suppose.
You say that, but at most they don’t filter past just cropping and A-A’ing with just gradfun slapped on. They don’t take into account if the color or anything is messed up. Just take FFF’s Highschool ShitD ending. No thought other than “we filtered the episode itself so it’s good to go.” Closed minded cunt.
Define “messed up”. Most colour “correction” I see on BD encodes is encoders thinking they know better than the studios as to how the anime is meant to look.
And no, sorry, I would still rather have a lazy BD encode than the typical crap put out by one-man encoder teams who know how to encode and nothing else. If I had a dollar for every time I downloaded a BD release that had bleeding signs, barely readable styling, and general shoddiness all round, I’d have… well, only a few dollars because I wised up, but them’s the breaks. There are a few BD subbers out there who actually have some idea of what they’re doing, but the vast majority are so incompetent I’ve taken to downloading TV releases of old shows by default unless I know the BD release is okay.
Xythat, since Daiz is ignoring me, maybe you can explain these following A+ decisions.
idolm@ster – Biggest offending case, CGi uses the exact same subs on a BD source, size increase is no different than a typical TV->BD conversion.
FMA:B – Eclipse is A+, CGi released a BD using the same subs.
Suite Precure – BDrip with highly corrected subtitles, definitely better than some subs of other series that got A+.
Star Driver – gg is A+ even though CGi released a BD using their subs, with some improvements to the scripts.
Shiki – Good subs (umee) on BD.
Rideback – Frostii has A+ even though CGi used their subs on a BD source.
Yumekui Merry – gg has A+ even though CGi used their subs on a BD and took out trolls like “Vagina Bones”
None of those have been reviewed yet. At the moment we’re all busy with current season stuff, but I can check those out when I’ve got some time If I see any bleeds, though, that’s an instafail.
Yet you seem to have been able to have checked FFF’s Non Non Biyori for bleeds even though you had all the current season’s shows available.
What is the reason for this?
It’s a direct upgrade of their TV release, which previously had the A+, and I trust archdeco to shift BDs competently.
No offence, but I don’t trust your staff quite as much.
And you say the A+ system isn’t biased in any way. Giving somebody the benefit of the doubt = bias.
Here, I’ll give you a chance to redeem yourself. We’ve argued a lot about fansubs on bakabt and BDs. You and your commie friends complained about encodes, subs used, etc. Yet on a non-tenshi release, have we ever talked about bleeding signs? Yes. Bakemonogatari’s original attempt which was over 4 years ago. Since then, it has never come up, at least not in my memory. Yet these are the easiest errors to spot, and would have come up near instantly if they existed.
Is this not enough to warrant the same trust archdeco has?
In addition, Doki had released Non Non Biyori volume 1 BD only. This means either:
a.) You completely skipped even reviewing them to see if they were better than FFF.
b.) You decided that since they weren’t listed on nyaa, they weren’t eligible to create or take away A+ ranking.
If it’s a, this is bias.
If it’s b, then this means that your definition of A+ needs to be revamped from “They represent the best available version of this content.” to “They represent the best available version of this content on nyaatorrents.” After all, Doki is available, but just isn’t listed on your site.
How are we going to give A+ to a release that isn’t on the site? That’s silly. You’re silly. I already told you this in our PM conversation, but releases not on NT are not considered for what should be pretty obvious reasons.
I’ll check the releases you listed out when I get time.
Correct, you cannot give A+ to Doki. But if it is better than FFF, then how can you call FFF the best available release of the content? You need to specify “on nyaatorrents” in the definition of A+ or this contradiction and bias exists.
I think most people would reasonably assume that NT does not contain every single release in existence and therefore the labels we assign are relative to NT itself. If you disagree, feel free to raise your concerns with Nyaa, the admin. I have no access to the help page myself.
Also, Doki’s NNB is based on the original CR script with no TLC listed (so basically FFF before Futsuu went through and fixed CR’s numerous TL errors and bad phrasing) so I am pretty sure they would not in fact be better – even if they were on NT.
You say that but FFF’s BD releases (which have “many” people “working” on them), have more errors than 1 man releases. Good job proving how much of a joke you are.
Okay dude, whatever you say. At least they know how to shift signs right!
Avoiding the subject as always :^) Stay classy old man
Yeah, I guess I should have posted a passionate counterargument against all the evidence you provided.
They don’t fix every issue from the original scripts, no, but then how many BD groups do, hmm?
Yes, that includes FFF. Next time you try and shit on other groups, try and use a group that also isn’t as bad.
They are not remotely as bad, my friend. Like I said, FFF shifts TV scripts competently and sometimes improves them. Most BD groups can’t even manage the “shifting” stage, let alone the rest of it.
When I watch a FFF BD release, I’m confident that I’m getting, at the very least, the same experience as the TV release it’s based on but with a better quality encode free of MPEG-2 shit and other compression artifacts. I can’t be confident about that with other BD groups because half the time what I get is a clusterfuck of shitty timing, bleeding signs, and styling that was made worse just because. Take a look at something like Kuroi’s Upotte, for instance. Some of the signs are a whole three or four frames off where they should be, making it unwatchable. It’s a downgrade compared to TV even before anything else is considered.
So no, your precious BD groups suck ass, by and large. Get over it.
http://i.imgur.com/YGwYR5K.jpg
tlacatlc6 delivers another quality BD group release – glad to see he fixed the original subs (top) being far too readable and specific.
(The quality is shit because I just grabbed an animetosho sample screenshot, but I’m pretty sure that style isn’t gonna look good under any circumstances)
>Get over it
>Get
>over
>it
And you’re here why? I can’t even come up with anything to top how much of a retard you are, holy shit dude. Just try not to be late for work replying on this site 24/7
gr8 bait m8
I wish FFF would do a QC of the scripts before releasing BDs. I’ve noticed quite a lot of typos in the BD releases I’ve downloaded from them. BDs are supposed to be archive-quality releases, so it’d be nice if I didn’t see stuff like blatant spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and unclosed comments present in the script, all of which surely could’ve been fixed with a QC pass prior to release.
Yes, that would be nice, though I’ve never seen a BD group that did anything with the scripts beyond badly shifting them either (other than useless things like adding honorifics or changing one random line).
I certainly do QC every BD release I’m involved in, and I would hope Eien does the same for as many releases as possible. That said, I think not adding issues to the TV scripts is a problem that many groups need to overcome before they tackle improving said scripts.
http://coalgirls.wakku.to/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/bmg_v3-1changelog.txt
This is on top of a good amount of edits I made to the original script to make it flow better, as well as adding in previews and extra signs.
Another example – CGi Railgun S2 which replaces most of the latter sisters arc lines with lines from Eclipse’s Season 1.
These are the 2 most extreme examples, though I also remember making heavy modifications to Toradora.
You may not agree with the changes made, but this just proves your point wrong.
And at the same time, your friend Tenshi puts out releases that he doesn’t even watch (I laughed when he only realised Blue Exorcist was missing Hatsuyuki’s hardsubbed karaoke post-release and had to patch it). I wouldn’t exactly hold CGi up as a paragon of carefully QCed releases.
No, I would not put Tenshi up as a paragon of carefully QCed releases.
Regardless, “never” is inaccurate as I just gave 3 examples of releases that were highly different from the original scripts whereas I only needed 1 to disprove “never”.
I had you in mind when I specified “useless things” there, but okay. The vast, vast majority of BD groups do nothing beyond shifting the script and calling it a day.
Yes, I figured. Though you should probably realize that those things that are useless to you are actually desired by many many downloaders.
Though it’s not like I change it because it’s to serve the dlers. CGi is a self-serving group. I want to watch series, so I do BDs of them, changing them how I want to see them, and then share them.
That does make me wonder why you’re so concerned about A+, but okay.
Judging by your list of errors I’m assuming you’re talking about DxD NEW vol.1 which was probably our only BD release with unclosed comments present in the script. Keeping it short: Eien stinx. Blame him for DxD NEW.
DxD NEW was one of the ones I was thinking of.
Another was RDG. No unclosed comments, but plenty of typos.
Think it out, Xythar, and you might stumble on the reason.
I QC every BD batch that I’m involved in. ◕ ◡ ◕
I can smell your smug from here, you self-righteous git. Insulting will surely get your point across. Cheeky cunt.
And I’m sure name-calling will get across yours!
Not really relevant, but what about Akuma no Riddle? No one will get A+ for that?
Apparently your translations all suck. Sorry.
Well, it’s been Funi TLC/Edit after episode 1.
┐(￣ー￣)┌
Also, was that based off of episode 1?
Not sure. I didn’t participate in the review since I’m not touching that show with a ten-foot pole, but if I recall correctly the conclusion was that no release met the minimum standard for A+.
But Commie’s Log Horizon did? flip flop brb killing myself for you
Commie’s shows get first priority for review and require far less quality to get A+. You should know that by now.
You sound mad bro.
Really? Guess my words aren’t conveying my emotions. It’s not really a mad so much as a rolling on the floor laughing my ass off kind of emotion.
No, you definitely sound mad.
Meh, guess I’ll put some lols and （◆＾3＾）s in next time to make it clearer what my emotions are.
ur mad xDDDDDDDDDD
u got burned
oh no i’m mad now
XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Fucking shit jokes m8
I enjoy watching DS and Xythar-chan jerk each other off as much as the next one, but truth be told, I’d prefer some more reviews.
And Caly; bring Caly back, DS-kun.
+1 bro that’s why I come here, just skip the shitty review and straight to the comment section.
Need more popcorn XD