236 thoughts on “Fansub Review: [FFF] Sword Art Online II (Episode 02)”

1. >Shoulda gone with “He may as well be a fish in a barrel.” because that line is fantastic and I’m a goddamn genius.

   That’s similar to what Commie went with.

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   • >Dialogue: 10,0:09:45.61,0:09:49.77,Default,Si,0,0,0,,{\i1}Like shooting fish in a barrel.

     No, that’s not at all what I was going for. This is actually a terrible edit. I’ll elaborate in my reply to sortitus.

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   • Though, for the line to sound even more right, he should say: “Like shooting fish in a barrel.”

     Does that make me Genius+? xD

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     • False, you of all people should have understood the point of my edit and why I didn’t go that route. ._.

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       • Hey, clichés are used for a reason (I would go into more detail but it’d end up tl;dr) xD

         If you didn’t want to use the idiom in its most clichéd form, you have to find a different idiom otherwise it just looks like you don’t know it or you’re tiptoeing around its purest form. Because, after all, the overused line has been whittled down to be as succinct as possible.

         You can’t really evade clichés in that way, so you’re better off looking for another phrase. Maybe there’s a basketball one using ‘slam dunk’ or I don’t know. ‘Like shooting candy out of a baby’s hands.’ I’m sure there’s some line the collective editing power of this comment section can come up with xD

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         • Sure, why don’t you tell me why the most cliched line possible is a great choice here, and why co-opting it with imagery is such a bad idea? I’d love to hear it.

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           • Because it’s a cliché to use ‘fish in a barrel’ there anyway, regardless of the exact phrasing. Trying desperately to reword the sentence doesn’t change that fact – it’s still a cliché. And if you’re going to use a cliché phrase in any given situation, it’s best to go with the most known form of it because time and reuse has whittled it down to its purest form. Like I said, clichés are used for a reason, and that reason is that they get across a certain piece of information or characterisation as quickly and as succinctly as possible.

             I never said it was a great choice. I think it’s much better to steer clear of clichés altogether if you can help of it. I merely pointed out that if you were gonna go halfway in, it’s better to go the whole hog than sounding like you’re trying to squirm halfheartedly out of saying it :D

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             • You probably think “co-opt” is just a misspelling of that place you buy groceries from.

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               • Oh wait, are you trying to troll me because you have no response? xD

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                 • The only thing I hate more than explaining my writing is explaining my writing.

                   The point of the line here is “this is really fucking easy”. So you’re right, there are lots of ways to get that across. But what’s the easiest way? The one that comes to mind the quickest? It’s gotta be “shooting fish in a barrel”. But wait, that doesn’t jive right; she’s actually shooting something, which fucks up the idiom. So you gotta come up with something else. But “fish in the barrel” still has to be in the mind of anyone who’s familiar with the term. So what do you fucking do? Well, you play with it. You take the term, acknowledge that it exists, then convert it into a line that has more thought behind it. Throw in imagery and double readings and you’ve got yourself a damn good sentence.

                   I don’t expect everyone to get my reasoning off the bat, but putting more than a second’s worth of thought into it should at least get you close to my understanding. I’m not sure I can dumb it down any more than I already have.

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                   • Ha, really? You think that’s how it works? Nah, you can’t dodge clichés that easily (if you could, the whole world and their mothers would be prize-winning novelists/scriptwriters).

                     If the idiom is fucked up, the idiom is fucked up. No messing with sentence structure will fix that – it’s the idiom you have to change.

                     Obviously your idea of a damn good sentence is very different to anyone who puts more than a second’s worth of thought into what a damn good sentence should be.

                   • I don’t understand your reasoning at all. Having “shooting” in the line just means it ties in nicely with what’s happening onscreen. How is it better to instead reference the cliche in an oblique fashion? Given the choice between a line people are going to understand instantly and a line that requires a few seconds of thought to connect the dots, I’d go for the former every time. These are subtitles, not a book, and the time the viewer has to process them is limited.

                   • If you don’t understand, perhaps the fault is with you.

                   • And for the record, if I saw your line in a release, my reaction would not be “that’s a damn good sentence”. It’d be something along the lines of “wow, why did they reference that idiom in such a roundabout way instead of going for the simple option and just stating it?”

                     And for the record, I actually saw Commie’s line for the first time in the TL party and thought “oh, nice job, Hiryuu” because I figured everyone else just kept the line from CR. Then I actually checked who used it.

                   • Cool answer. I’ll remember that one the next time you ask me to explain one of my arguments.

                   • Go for it. I’ve long given up on expecting original thought from you.

                   • I’ve long given up on expecting original reviews from you, so I guess that makes two of us.

                   • Original, as in reviewing my own subs? This ain’t NRR or Nyaa, sorry to disappoint.

                   • That’s a pretty torturous stretch, man. Probably would’ve been better not to say anything at all.

                   • I’m not particularly sure what you meant by original then. Enlighten me.

                   • If you don’t understand, perhaps the fault is with you.

                   • Dat flattery. You really do love me, don’t you? <3

                   • “Like shooting deer in a nature reserve.”

                     I’m guessing the fact you haven’t really replied to my comment on that line or Xythar’s very similar comment means that you know we’re right but don’t want to publicly admit it on your site.

                     It’s cool, man. This can stay between us. Mum’s the word ;)

                   • If you want to make this a “last post wins” kind of deal, then I don’t think you’re going to like the outcome.

                     What exactly did you want a reply to? Your belief that idioms can only be represented word-for-word in scripts? That they can’t be referenced or modified? There’s no discussion to be had; you’re completely and utterly wrong.

                     So what exactly would I achieve by paying more attention to you? Other than wasted time? And no, you haven’t convinced me of a damn thing other than that you might wanna start putting that other foot in the grave.

                   • Ah, did I make the almighty Sage mad? xD

                     How is there no discussion to be had? You’ve had two people pretty much say that your suggested line sucks and that the reasoning behind using it over the “cliché” with the same idiom is flawed. I’m not trying to have a pissing contest here – I think you’ll find it was you who called me out on my original reply rather than the other way around – but if you’re going to say we’re ‘completely and utterly wrong’, you have to at least fight your corner a little better than that.

                     And it’s not that it has to be word-for-word. You’ve obviously missed my point. I said that you shouldn’t really use a circuitous way of saying a line when there’s already a set way that’s much more succinct. To be honest, isn’t that what you look for when you’re doing these reviews – how natural lines sound? No one native would use the line you’ve suggested because it’s roundabout rather than to-the-point.

                     I’m not sure why you’ve felt the need to resort to threats when all I’ve done is try to have a discussion on how to use clichés or what to actually do to avoid them.

                   • The line I proposed is not a rephrase of the idiom. It is a call-out to the idiom, directly referencing it. I have no idea why this is so fucking hard for you to understand.

                   • That’s not a ‘call-out’ though – for starters, saying “fish in a barrel” (even by itself as “Fish in a barrel, my friend.”) already invokes the idiom by itself. It’s not referencing. Referencing would be “This is my barrel and I’ve just found my fish” not skirting around using the ‘cliché’ phrase in its ‘cliché’ form. Whatever you think you were doing with that line, you weren’t.

                     Though, it is a noble attempt to try and get away from clichés, so fair enough for trying. We would definitely produce better scripts if we as fansub editors steered clear of using the most cliché line in any given situation, but doing such a thing and staying loyal to the Japanese is something which requires untold artistry and lightness of touch.

                     As witnessed by your… attempt >.>

                   • What broke in your head to make you equate what you call “invocations” with what’s being “invoked”? I know the brain goes first, but aren’t you still too young for this?

                   • Evoked, if you rather. It doesn’t really matter, I just preferred the imagery of the idiom being summoned, but I suppose you make an apt grammatical point there. Obviously one of my bad habits from my days studying poetry where things *are* invoked (again, lots of tl;dr about the nature of poetry) XD

                     Noted, and will attempt to use ‘evocation’ for your pleasure in future.

                   • invoker invoking invocations

               • You know, there’s no shame in admitting when you’re wrong. I’m not sure why you’ve gone into troll mode (maybe because I’ve unwittingly advocated Commie’s edit?) but it doesn’t really work on me (plus, I’d win in a troll-off – I’ve been doing it way longer :p).

                 It’s up to you if you take my (or anyone else’s) advice on any given line. But you have to realise that resorting to trolling because you can’t counter points raised kinda undermines that whole godlike aura you’re attempting to fashion for yourself ;)

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           • How about “Like shooting ducks at a gallery”? Less clichéd for you? :D

             Or “He might as well have a bullseye painted on his face”?

             The possibilities are endless ^__^

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             • Yes, shooting ducks at a gallery. How many people under 40 will ever use that phrase in their lives?

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               • You don’t have shooting galleries at fairs anymore? I thought they were pretty standard fare throughout the world.

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                 • How many people under 40 will ever go to a fair in their lives?

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                   • It’s a family thing. I went to the yearly carnival in my hometown as a nipper here in Britland, and US programs like The Simpsons suggest the same happens across the pond. Hell, even Japan use the same types of fair games for their festivals – and you can’t tell me only over 40s go to that. If they did, it wouldn’t feature as one of the stock episodes in nearly all anime series.

                   • But in the US we would have to have police on standby, “trigger” warnings (I don’t mean the gun kind), and the gun would have to be on a mount so it couldn’t be pointed away from the stand.

                   • That’s what you get in a gun-happy nation, yeah.

2. >two weeks

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   • >half way done

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   • Or a couple hours from now, whichever comes sooner.

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3. Wtf happened to my comment.

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   • Censorship!

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   • Which one are you referring to? I don’t see anything in the spam filter.

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     • It was “>2 weeks”
       So what about Hiryuu and Commie’s review?

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       • Yeah, comments system ain’t too keen on gt/lt signs. It takes it as you trying to use HTML, so that shit gets sent to the void. Try “& gt;” or “& lt;” (spaces removed).

         As for the other groups, what about them? I’m not gonna review the same ep four times. That’s insane.

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4. While it’s infinitely better than the paper/trash can phrase, there are couple reasons I wouldn’t use the “shooting fish in barrel” idiom:

   1. An integral part of the idiom is that you’re not aiming at a single fish, but you’re guaranteed to hit at least one if you shoot into a barrel full of them.

   2. The simile is weakened by applying it to an action closely related to the literal meaning of the phrase. If “like tossing a ball of paper into a trash can” was an idiom, you wouldn’t want to use it to describe tossing a plastic bottle into a trash can because the actions are too similar. Unless you were intentionally going for pity laughs at your terrible lack of imagination.

   I’d go for the far superior “That’s like shooting a guy at 1500m when in an anime about a game where I’m the protagonist and I never fail.” That way no stupid people will think you’re actually talking about shooting a fish and be confused at why Sinon changed targets.

   Or you could find an idiom like “easy money” (since Kirito’s getting paid for his time in game) from a thesaurus: http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/easy Obviously not for the non-native English translators though, as using “I’m easy” would prompt too large of an explosion in Sinon fan art and not get the correct meaning across.

   Unrelated to the sub quality: does genderswapped Kirito mean we’ll be getting a reverse harem this time around? Because that would be the best times.

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   • Nah, this arc is a non-harem arc.

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   • Sinon isn’t genderswapped Kirito. “Easy money” wouldn’t work for a couple other reasons though, namely we don’t know Sinon’s motivations, and we don’t know what happened “that time”. The episode indicated she wasn’t necessarily focused on money, or she wouldn’t have directly engaged a super strong player, risking quite a bit for something with a relatively poor chance of completion.

     Anyway, the point of my edit was not to go for “It’s like shooting fish in a barrel”. That’s too boring; it’s expected. I’d probably facepalm if I actually saw that in a script. No, what I was going for is imagery that *references* the idiom. Bonus points to me for a “barrel” also referring to the barrel of a gun.

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     • Noted. I obviously haven’t watched any of this show yet, but heard that Kirito was playing as a girl this time around. Maybe I just misinterpreted what I read.

       And yeah, your adaptation of the idiom is definitely better than just using it stock, but I’d still be hesitant to apply an idiom that refers to shooting a gun in a situation where a gun is literally being used. My stupid brain must have skimmed over what you wrote and assumed that you used the unmodified idiom.

       I’m starting the series now, so I guess I’ll get to hear whether the paper/trash can simile is just a literal translation. If it isn’t, so many facepalms and possibly a headdesk will be had. Even if it is literal though, it’s a terrible comparison to make. Unless the trash can in question is a dumpster and you’re throwing the paper from less than 20 feet, I wouldn’t immediately think that the outcome was guaranteed. Going from “tossing” to “dropping” fixes that part, leaving only a weird phrase rather than one that also makes very little sense. Woo!

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       • Kirito isn’t genderswapped, but does look like a girl in GGO. Sinon, however, isn’t his character. You’ll see him later. Or in the OP. You can see him clashing with Sinon right at the end of it, for instance.

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       • It’s literal as can be. Check out the translation party post or watch the ep

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         • I just watched it, and it shows up in both episodes. Wow. I still advocate a change from “tossing” to “dropping”, but I don’t think I’d go for a more liberal translation since I doubt it’s a common phrase in Japanese either. If we were talking about a dub script, something along the lines of D_S’s change might be in order. As it is, I think increasing clarity without changing the line too much would be the best solution.

           Was I the only one who was completely bored by these first two episodes? The second episode was admittedly less bad than the endless flashing back and forth between the equally boring scenes in the park and cake shop. I don’t know who thought that a sniper would be an exciting character to follow. What is this, Log Horizon? So much *headdesk*.

           I’m going to have to self-medicate with an Illya cuteness overload now. I’ll probably cry if I don’t feel like I’ve consumed a fatal dose of sugar afterward, because I don’t have the time to follow more than a couple shows this season.

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           • I thought the second episode was the best of the franchise, mainly because Kirito and Asuna were mostly absent from it.

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           • The first two eps shoulda been combined into one. Don’t need more than one ep of setup.

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             • I’ve got bad news for you. There’s enough setup for at least one or two more episodes.

               Now, they could probably put that stuff later as flashbacks, but the first two episodes show they’ll probably go with the light novel, so enjoy episode 3~.

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     • Expected? Should probably go for “Like bullseye-ing a womp rat” then, which should get bonus points because only geeks watch anime and play mmorpgs ^___^

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5. Wasn’t FFF’s script just ripped from CR?
   I compared it with HS and they didn’t change the “Ballet” one.

   Will you review Hiryuu’s sub,too?

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   • It was a rather minimal edit, but they changed enough to qualify for my reviews.

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6. Holy moly, so many reviews. Nice job DS, nice job.

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   • Only 77 to go!

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     • \o/

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     • Even at one review a day, you wouldn’t finish before the fall season starts. Why even bother?

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       • I’m sure half of them will be disq’d anyway. This is the fansub scene, after all.

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         • Well can you speed up the the disqualification process, so you can actually review!

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           • sasuga ryuk

             the grammar god

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             • Useless comments ftw!

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               • I was going to say something, but then Ryuk described his own posts so well…

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             • +

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         • ( ¬‿¬)

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7. Review Hiryuu’s for their god-tier OP typesetting. It’s a must after how bored you were with FFF’s

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   • I will, but for ep 3+. I’m not gonna watch episode 2 again, regardless of how cute Sinon is.

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   • You should all prepare your butts for the OP kara, just saying. ( ¬‿¬)

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     • Irie threw it up on vimeo: http://vimeo.com/101139569

       Not bad.

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       • Oh, that’s not the finished version yet.

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         • Solidesu.

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         • Oh rally?

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           • Yeah. We’re still having it made. It’ll be glorious.

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             • Its good to hear that you’re still working on it, the OP is great but the fonts need to be worked on.
               http://s6.postimg.org/z7b05p7wx/Hiryuu_Sword_Art_Online_II_02_720p_H264_AAC.jpg

               The ending kara is also great but it lags a little

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               • Pretty sure that’s not what it’s supposed to look like…

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                 • I’m calling VLC on that one….(or something as bad as VLC.)

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                   • http://puu.sh/aiqTj/568f2e1bfd.jpg

                     Even VLC doesn’t fuck up like that.

               • Yeah, I think whatever player you’re using is just bad.

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               • Someone needs to upgrade their player.

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                 • I’m using MPC+madVR+XYvs, seems time to update. Thanks period

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                   • Spotted out the problem, my mpc didn’t recognize the font attached in the file. Fixed.

                   • just get Kawai codec pack…..configuring MPC/MadVR/XY is overrated when KCP does it for you :P

                   • MPC/MadVR/XY, just mentioning it; i have KCP installed, stuff didn’t work for a reason

                   • should report that on the KCP forum then :/

       • It’s too obtrusive for my taste. It’s huge and overlaps the credits at some parts.

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         • >It’s too obtrusive.
           There should be a rule about making the karaoke more interesting then the OP itself.

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           • Well, it’s SAO.

             We’d have to not include any OP stuff at all to make it less interesting!

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             • ( ¬‿¬)

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           • There should be a rule against boring, terrible OPs, because it’s pretty fucking sad when a fansub group can make subtitles more interesting than the OP itself.

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             • I heard ITW’s Noucome subs were better than the show itself. I watched episode one and could confirm it for that episode, at least.

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               • NouCome was good, but I did just watch ITW’s releases for the typesetting.

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         • Yeah, I’ll reserve judgment until I see the final version, but I’m not a big fan of the one in the video. Takes up too much space.

           I think if the romaji were just done the same way as the English lines, with some smart colour matching and maybe a subtle in-out transition, it’d be perfect. The font is already a pretty nice fit as it is, so no need to get too fancy.

           Just my opinion, though.

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           • If the health bar weren’t as wide it would look perfect.

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             • Yeah, I could stand behind removing the “Hiryuu” and just including a thin lifebar in the background as a transition effect.

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               • >removing the “Hiryuu”
                 Whose health bar is it, then? It’d probably look better, but it takes away from the effect they’re going for.

                 I think if they just removed the two things circled in red, it’d look a lot better and a lot less obstructive. http://s3.postimg.org/d8ovin54j/nigger_cunt_faggot.png

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                 • But the idea is that they’re trying to emulate the health bar in the show. If they remove those two bits, then it’s no longer the SAO health bar.

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                   • Oh, I see. I don’t watch SOA, so I wasn’t aware. I thought they were just going for the standard health bar look.

                     Never mind then; the kfx is perfect as is.

                   • Oh, you ( ¬‿¬).

       • Absolutely based.

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       • the newer version….well fck me sideways , just stop at 1:57 and A+ it /endreview…
         

         (D_S please tell me how you added them subs to vimeo, I tried to upload there sadly it was sub-less and it wanted me to use shitty VTT subs :/)

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         • Yeah, I’m going to avoid Hiryuu because of this.

           Nice effect for an AMV, but shitty for an episode.

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           • It plays during the fucking OP. Get the stick out of your ass.

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           • Yeah, pretty much every group for this show is trying too hard with their karaoke at this point.

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             • With how much time you spend on your edits, I don’t think you have any room to talk.

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               • Says the guy who wrote 900 blog articles about his opinions on fan translations without ever bothering to learn more than a few words of Japanese.

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                 • Says the guy who’s jerked off to every single article.

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                   • will this debate contine?
                     i’m going to grab my popcorn… :x

                   • I wouldn’t call this a debate. More just a string of ad-hominems.

               • But putting more time on edits is better than putting more time on Karaoke.

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                 • Nah, you need to spend exactly one hour on your three passes or it’s no good. Less time means you’re re-encoding and more time means you’re a tryhard, regardless of the end result.

                   Stalling for a year is quite okay, though

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                   • My recommended time for editing an episode is 1.5 hours. Of course, I come from a scene where people edited off of in-house translations, so my recommendations are likely not relevant to you. As you’re editing from official translations, you clearly have a harder time of things than any of us oldsubbers did, so estimations should be changed a bit. 5 hours definitely seems about right for such a difficult job.

                     Keep it up, and make sure to keep dissing other groups for “trying too hard” on their karaoke. It makes you seem rather sane, all thing considered.

                   • Yeah, man, I’m sure the reason Hyoubu has been stalled for so long is because you just couldn’t find 1.5 hours of spare time over the entire past year. I’d find your claims a little more believable if you’d ever, you know, subbed a show quickly.

                     And you’re seriously going to call me out for “dissing other groups”? Here, of all places? You’ve fucking lost it. Guess you’d better delete the blog before you throw any more stones from that glass house of yours.

                   • >here of all places

                     You didn’t expect to be called out for your hypocrisy on Crymore? Oh Xythar, you precious child.

                   • Hey, you’re the one who thinks “trying to hard on karaoke” (ie, producing a garish, overdone end result) is equivalent to “spending too much time editing” (ie, taking more time to complete the task than an arbitrary, unrealistic limit set by Dark_Sage). Actual hypocrisy would be pointing out examples where I “tried too hard” on my own karaoke, but I guess that approach would make too much sense to you.

                   • I believe an example where someone who tries super hard and calls others out for doing the same does qualify as hypocrisy.

                     My 1.5 hour mark doesn’t come from nothing. Rather, it comes from a time when groups actually bothered competing with each other and efficiency mattered. But again, I come from a different scene than you do — one in which fansubs were actually relevant — so maybe you have more insight on what a now-appropriate amount of time to spend on a show is.

                   • Making ostentatious karaoke isn’t a sign of “trying hard”, it’s a sign of being a moron.

                     If karaoke was any indication of a job well done on the script, Hatsuyuki would be veritable gods of fansubbing.

                     And Dark_Sage, please. You never so much as edited more than a handful of episodes of anything, and very badly. You barely qualify as a fansubber to begin with. Trying to imply that you’re some kind of oldfag scene subber is nothing but a sad joke.

                   • I didn’t realize some random Commie song TL knew so much about me. Why don’t you enlighten me as to how you conducted your research? Did you find this knowledge in your own ass or Xythar’s?

                   • No, because you see, words have meanings, and hypocrisy is a disconnect between one’s stated beliefs and actual practices. I believe karaoke should be (relatively) unobtrusive and fit in well with the video and audio of the OP or ED, and the karaoke I make follows that principle. A better example would be the guy who thinks all edits should take 1.5 hours and fansubs should be completed quickly and efficiently when he’s stalled every show he’s picked up over the last two years. Or the guy who talks about relevance when nobody of note has given a shit about what he has to say for at least a year now.

                   • If you’ve built your life around trying hard at fansubs and say people who try hard at fansubs suck, well maybe you’re too dumb to be a hypocrite. I’ll give you that one.

                     I also think it’s a bit silly to claim I’m not relevant when you continue to spend half your life on my site, after having sworn up and down you were leaving here forever… twice.

                   • Oh yeah, and an appropriate amount of time to spend on a show is however long it takes to get the job done, as long as you don’t fall behind. I’m not sure you understand that my comments here have nothing to do with time spent and everything to do with the end result, so I thought I’d spell it out for you.

                   • Yes, that hypothetical guy in your imagination sounds dumb indeed. Almost as dumb as the guy who spent his life reviewing fansubbers’ work when none of those fansubbers respect him.

                   • You think I write fansub reviews so fansubbers will like me? Are you illiterate?

                   • This conversation is exactly like watching Vicious. I just can’t figure out which of you is Jacobi and which McKellen.

                   • Not exactly sure why “nobody of note has given a shit about what he has to say for at least a year now.”

                     Perhaps it’s because he actually grades without bias, so cartel groups don’t always get A+, even when they fail to change more than 10% of the script?

                   • It has more to do with his inability to admit he’s wrong (or even that there are other equally valid alternatives to his One True Opinion) and his resorting immediately to ad hominem when someone dares contradict him. Do I actually have to explain why someone who talks about editing in absolutes isn’t a credible opinion?

                     And you really have to get over your Nyaa rage-boner. I’ve only ever gotten one A+ myself, and I could not care less.

                   • >absolutes

                     You do realize my fixes are just suggestions — concept sentences, really — right? If I find issue with a line, I explain why if I think it isn’t terribly obvious, and I tend to offer examples of phrasing that would work better. I don’t expect groups to copy-paste everything I say; that wouldn’t make any sense. Edits are supposed to flow, and the script’s primary editor probably has a better grasp of how to work line fixes in to make a complete-feeling product than I do.

                     Also, being insulting isn’t “ad hominem”. Though I imagine that’s difficult to understand for an ESL like you.

                   • >Perhaps it’s because he actually grades without bias, so cartel groups don’t always get A+, even when they fail to change more than 10% of the script?

                     If anything, he does the exact opposite by giving his own A+ to “non-cartel” groups and nitpicking/bashing stuff released by “cartel” groups. What the fuck is a “cartel” group anyway?

                   • Last five A-tiers:
                     1. DameDesuYo
                     2. HorribleSubs
                     3. FFF
                     4. FTW
                     5. FFF

                     Please tell me how oppressed you are, Mr. FFF dev.

                   • I find my knowledge in the vast expanses of my intellect, and we both know I am right, unless you suffer from a severe case of confabulated memory.

                   • Yeah, my memory might be a bit off. What were you doing back in ’08 again? I don’t recall seeing you around. Well, I’m sure you being relegated to song TLs for groups that despise karaoke is only a recent development — you were probably a great TL back in the day, weren’t you?

                   • >If anything, he does the exact opposite by giving his own A+ to “non-cartel” groups

                     Example? And he nitpicks things in every review for every group. He’s sometimes more insulting towards certain groups when they produce poor releases because of the perception people have of them.

                   • http://www.crymore.net/2014/02/02/fansub-review-ftw-chuunibyou-demo-koi-ga-shitai-ren-episode-03/ <- A to a cartel group

                     http://www.crymore.net/2014/07/19/fansub-review-doki-akame-ga-kill-episode-02/ <- D to a non-cartel group

                     And the only reason why the A to a cartel group is so old is that D_S hardly gives out A-tiers at all.

                     If it seems to you like A-tiers are only given out to non-cartel groups and other releases are needlessly nitpicked, you simply are ignoring things that go into your "norm" which is "If it's A+ on Nyaa, it's A+ in my book!"

                     As for the cartel, it was a coin I termed back in 2011. They were a set of 5 groups – gg, UTW, Underwater, Commie, and Ryuumaru – that generally shared the same staff and had little to no overlap in the shows that they did. They would effectively cover the entire season. All 5 operated on extremely fast speeds, and would constantly rush to each others defense and time they were criticized anywhere. And I mean anywhere. I remember seeing a criticism of like Underwater on some relatively obscure anime site, and suddenly there were like 4 cartel members defending the release.
                     Since then, the cartel has slightly changed. gg has died, UTW is all but dead, as well as Ryuumaru. However a few groups take their place, such as FFF and Vivid.

                   • But Kristen, I’m sure Dark_Sage himself has edited for gg in that period, so doesn’t that make him one of the cartel too? >:

                   • Weren’t you editing/QCing for some no-names back in ’08, Dark_Sage? My memory’s a bit hazy too. Or maybe I didn’t see you from my lofty perch in groups that actually mattered back then ;)

                   • What, you fansubbed in ’08? Sorry, missed your name then. I probably didn’t watch your releases, which is like to be a good thing, considering you released sofuteni together with such reputable characters as Arashi in ’11.

                     It’s probably safe to say you were shitsubbing for the better part of four years before you turned your attention to envious blog posts about people more competent than you are.

                   • >Please tell me how oppressed you are, Mr. FFF dev.

                     I said cartel, not FFF. Recent examples would be Black Bullet and NGNL. I’d love to dig more, but unfortunately you barely reviewed anything last season (10 reviews for 6 shows I think).

                   • Dig all you want. The easiest way to show me up is with evidence. So if you think I’m grading too harshly or too leniently, all you need to do is point out notable errors in subs that earned decent grades, or point out why something isn’t a mistake for groups you think I’m being mean to. I leave my comments section open to all forms of stupidity (which is why you’re still allowed to post here) so feel free to reveal what an evil meanie pants I am to all my readers.

                   • Underwater’s release for BB was shit. D_S was completely justified in giving that grade.

                     You can cherry pick examples of D_S giving “cartel” groups shit scores and non-“cartel” groups good scores, just as you can find examples to the contrary. It’s almost like he gives out grades based on the quality of the release, not the name attached. If you’re used to the Nyaa A+ review model, that’s probably a strange concept to grasp.

                   • And go back another season where he gives Underwater a “B” and t.3.3.d a “C” on Mikakunin.

                     Having an example does not make bias. Bias comes from consistently doing something, or doing something with a rare exception.

                     Like, look at here. Do you know what the grades are going to be for Locodol? No, I honestly have no clue. He may grade FFF higher than Chihiro, or Chihiro higher than FFF.
                     Then look at nyaa. Do you know who’s getting A+ for Locodol? I knew it as soon as FFF said “We’re doing Locodol” (which I still find funny considering the first episode wasn’t very impressive, and it was announced after it became clear that Chihiro was going to be the only group on the show).

                     Try showing that D_S has CONSISTENTLY given non-cartel groups higher grades than cartel groups. 2 examples does not a point make.

                   • >Try showing that D_S has CONSISTENTLY given non-cartel groups higher grades than cartel groups. 2 examples does not a point make.

                     If you bother to take a look at the “Review_Summary” page, you will quickly find out that D_S has been reviewing no more than a few releases every season, so there isn’t that much to choose from.

                     And I’m not even gonna comment on the whole “FFF got blue for Locodol as soon as they announced they would do it” idea because it’s so hilarious. Whatever floats your boat. Although I can’t say I wasn’t expecting this.

                   • Chihiro did not get A+ on Locodol because the encoding is horrible (extremely choppy scrolling text and overcropped video).

                     The release is otherwise of similar quality as FFF.

                   • hey, weren’t we supposed to do one show as [cartel] just to piss kristen off?

                     Yeah, you totally don’t do anything just because of me…

                     fnord – The cropping is done to the exact point of distortion. This is exactly what is demanding in Usagi Desu Ka, so it just goes to highlight the double standard that exists in nyaa.

                   • Seems like the archdeco tag in irc code was wrongly interpreted as htmp and didn’t show.

                     The first sentence was stated by archdeco on irc in a channel.

                   • I did not watch Usagi.

                     Even if you ignore the cropping (which is not really a problem, since little important information is contained in those remote pixels, and so doesn’t form the basis of this decision), the scrolling text is very irritating.

                     You would not have been disqualified on cropping grounds if that were the only thing making your release (slightly) worse than FFF’s.

                   • Scrolling text is a very minor aspect of the final product due to the short time it is on screen, and the fact that it is very hard to deal with without damaging the rest of the video.
                     It is commonly used either as something to nitpick about, or something to use as an excuse, both done due to bias. Caring about the scruff on the floor and ignoring the elephant in the room, if you would.

                     You’re continuing to prove my point.

                   • I’m not.

                     I’m freely admitting you put out a passable release.

                     Chihiro and FFF both had similar weaknesses in TS, editing and timing; a TL review was not conducted, as to our knowledge you both used CR.

                     A+ had to be handed out to someone, so we decided to let the choppy text decide. If you want to avoid this in the future, cooking up a script that compares more favorably to its competitor is advisable.

                   • >Scrolling text is a very minor aspect of the final product due to the short time it is on screen, and the fact that it is very hard to deal with without damaging the rest of the video.

                     Funny, because every other group has no problems with IVTCing scrolling texts, INCLUDING non-cartel ones. Either you don’t care about the show, or your encoder doesn’t know how to do it.

                     >Yeah, you totally don’t do anything just because of me…

                     http://www.nyaa.se/?page=search&cats=0_0&filter=1&term=cartel

                   • It’s very easy to seek fault with the judge instead of admitting one’s own work was lacking in quality and trying to improve.

                   • I’m not sure irony can get more concentrated than this.

                   • “Only versions that we actually consider worthy of a seal of approval will be listed.”

                     Do you even know your own rules? A+ does not have to be handed out to anyone, and there are a million examples of it not. Just do a search of “Commie” on Nyaa and look at every release that is not A+ – nobody got A+ on any of them.

                     And don’t even think about saying that those are just because Commie had no competition. No Game No Life had competition and no A+ was given, while Space Dandy had no competition and A+ was given.

                     If FFF had “similar weaknesses” and you’re saying that the Chihiro release “was not passable”, you’re saying “FFF is not A+ material and we just made it A+ because they’re FFF”.

                   • archdeco, did you or did you not say “hey, weren’t we supposed to do one show as [cartel] just to piss kristen off?” sometime in early July or late June on irc? Yes or no question.

                   • But he just said that your release was passable and since they were quite similar in quality, it boiled down to encoding issues…

                   • Logs do not lie. Those are my words.
                     But do you see a release tagged as [cartel] released anywhere on the internet?

                   • You’re twisting my words.

                     Both Chihiro and FFF were good enough to get A+, and had similar weaknesses in the script, but Chihiro had ugly, choppy text. Therefore FFF was selected. We’re not going to give A+ to two different releases.

                     Why are you so intent on seeing enemies where there are none? Some other people on Nyaa’s staff dislike you, that’s true, but I have absolutely nothing against you and no reason to treat your releases any differently from FFF. I didn’t review Locodol, but I supported the decision and am now explaining a decision to you that, to me, makes perfect sense. Why all this tinfoil hattery?

                     This is precisely why we don’t normally explain A+ decisions. It’s just a huge waste of time to argue with all you conspiracy nuts.

                   • No, a [cartel] release does not exist because you could not get enough people on board to do it. After all, who would want to make a release that does nothing to bring attention to their group by releasing under an anonymous name like that?

                     But those logs pretty much confirmed to me all my suspicions about targetted releases.

                   • Yeah fnord, I misread what you wrote, sorry. I read “I’m not saying Chihiro’s is a passable release” instead of “I’m not. I’m saying Chihiro’s is a passable release”.

                     Though the fact that untranslated signs were ignored in FFF’s release is quite amusing.

                   • >Kristen not understanding humour

                     On a side-note, I think Cartel would make a great joint name :D

                   • Damn, you got me.

                   • lol, if “cartel” is a joint name, it better be a joint between UTW, Commie, Underwater, Vivid, and FFF. Otherwise it’s not the full modern cartel.

                   • >This is precisely why we don’t normally explain A+ decisions.

                     You see, I think if you actually did explain your reasons, you’d see less criticism. Not being transparent at all in your decision-making just leaves you open to people accusing you of bias.

                     If you’re not giving any reasons, then why should people believe the A+ status has been awarded based on an unbiased assessment of the quality of the release, and not just because the person who slapped the tag on it works for or likes that particular group?

                     People will still dispute those reasons, but if you at least made it clear that some thought toward the process had been given and you’d assessed all groups objectively, you would have some ground to stand on when accused of being biased for/against certain groups.

                   • >Though the fact that untranslated signs were ignored in FFF’s release is quite amusing.

                     Both groups typeset stuff that the other didn’t.

                   • Those were noted, but you made no effort to explain the food in question; you merely romanized it. Romanizing food does not give the watcher any idea of what it is they’re looking at. You could have explained it in a TL note, or straight-up translated it into English, but a romanization tells the watcher nothing. Therefore we ignored these signs, because so would the watcher.

                     Dealing with scrolling text is more important than romanizing some food.

                     (I haven’t seen the episode, so this is merely based on the summary I read. I’m assuming you’re not talking about different signs.)

                     Besides, FFF’s script has marginally better editing because they removed a few of the more egregious ellipses.

                     I’m not going to go even deeper into this. The discussion is over. Several people looked at the relative arguments in favor of Chihiro and FFF and determined that the scrolling text made enough of a difference to select FFF. Both releases had weaknesses that the other did not have, but on the whole, Chihiro just had one weakness more. If you’re going to spend the afternoon looking for faults in FFF then I could do so for Chihiro and we would most likely arrive at that very tally, but I don’t have the time for this nonsense.

                     If you want to get your own A+, I would suggest not making so many silly and simple mistakes. Get an editor who really straightens up the dialogue instead of making some cosmetic changes; don’t mess up encoding. Your competition for this show was not superhuman and could have been beaten by a careful release.

                   • “could have been beaten” is something I hear consistently. Like how coldhell “could have beaten” Nisekoi for A+ if they had used the updated scripts. Or how CGi “could have beaten” the (still unreleased) BD on Usagi if they dealt with the borders.
                     “could have beaten” is just another way of saying “biased nitpicking” in nyaa terms. But I’m done discussing this too.

                     But what it goes back to is what Hairy was saying. Just giving a grade an no explanation consistently like this, preferring the same groups in every scenario, is what leads to beliefs of bias. If you are more transparent with your reviews, sure, you’ll have disagreements, but at least there will be less complaints of bias.

                     Actually, no. Dark_Sage posts every opinion with complete rationale, and selects a variety of groups as the best release, and archdeco still says he’s biased.

                   • >Romanizing food does not give the watcher any idea of what it is they’re looking at.

                     They’re looking a the dish on the screen which is something they eat in Japan and call whatever

                     Look at it the other way around. Would you translate apple pie or doughnuts to a Japanese food?

                   • >This is precisely why we don’t normally explain A+ decisions. It’s just a huge waste of time to argue with all you conspiracy nuts.

                     So you give a ranking to something. Then you proceed to not tell anyone why you think they deserve that ranking over another release.then , finally, expect people not to think your heavily biased?

                     Well you sure showed them.

                   • Those are common foods though. I don’t know the specifics of this particular example, but things like ramen and soba have made it to Western shores. Leaving something like kamonanban or hegi soba untranslated isn’t the same though as you can easily translate those into their components and they’ll make more immediate sense to a Western viewer (the people we’re subbing for) instead of leaving them to google everything.

                   • I actually thought fnord was talking in a metaphor. I wasn’t actually referring to that sign.

                   • This is a reply to http://www.crymore.net/2014/07/18/fansub-review-fff-sword-art-online-ii-episode-02/comment-page-1/#comment-184745

                     Scrolling text is actually really easy (and fast) to fix nowadays and the video never gets really damaged. (There might be some very small interpolation artifacting near the ends of the video where the text is but that is pretty much unnoticeable.)

                   • Anyone who doesn’t think Nyaa’s A+ system is a bias load of dogshit is a fucking retard. It’s so blatantly obvious that they favour certain groups (ala the groups the mods are a part of and their entourage) while targetting others. They will always give A+ to their — as Kristen puts it — “cartel” groups and desperately try and justify their decisions. And if multiple cartel groups are doing a release, then of course they simply don’t give out an A+, despite Fnord’s earlier claim that “we had to give an A+”. Then, of course, you have them target groups by either ensuring they don’t get A+ or marking their releases as re-encodes (specifically doing this to Coalgirls). They then try to justify this bullshit by misinterpreting the rules or claiming that we simply don’t understand said rules they made (probably because their rules are fucking retarded). They are so wishy-washy and contradict themselves all the fucking time. I mean, seriously, complaining about some scrolling text while A+’ing a script that had “monkey aids” in it? Are you fucking serious?

                     That said, I’m not defending Kristen because:
                     1. She brings this shit upon herself. Seriously, why do you care so fucking much about A+. Kristen? And the fact that you constantly argue with the Nyaa mods is just going to ensure that they continue hating you.

                     2. The “cartel” groups are generally the best anyway (with the exception of Commie). I don’t think there is ever a time where I’ve looked at a Vivid, Underwater, UTW or FFF release as said, “wow, this really didn’t fucking deserve A+.” Commie is obviously a different story because most of the time they’ve given themselves an A+, there is a nonn-cartel group that did a much better job.

                     But I will never understand why Kristen cares so much; she’s never going to get A+ — especially when she makes herself so hated — and anyone with out Commie’s dick shoved into their brain can see straight through Nyaa’s mods’ bullshit. Hell, even the biggest retards on /a/ know that Nyaa’s mods are a bunch of biased Commie faggots.

                   • >She

                   • Is Kristen just a guy on hormones? This is an important question that needs answering

                 • It’s funny seeing you accuse other people of being illiterate given that I didn’t say “like” at all. I said “respect”. And it’s not a goal; it’s a prerequisite.

                   I didn’t always agree with 8th, for instance, but people listened to what he had to say, fansubbers included. That’s something you lack because you don’t know Japanese, have no real editing credentials to speak of, and have a history of being wrong and making yourself look stupid.

                   Reply

                   • I don’t particularly see how it’s a prereq when it hasn’t factored into a single post on this site. Perhaps you could enlighten me more on my motives, since you clearly know so much about me.

                   • Nah, pulling stuff out of your ass about other people’s motives is your department.

                     Keep doing your thing, I’m sure it’s very worthwhile.

                   • You pumped your EVA pretty nicely but it’s getting more and more obvious that you picked INT as your dump stat.

                   • That second point sums up this site pretty much, although I do like koku and the translation parties. Personally I just come back for the shits and giggles

             • I wouldn’t say FFF tried.

               Reply

               • FFF = Simple and dull
                 Commie = For the lelz ecsee deee mememz
                 Hiryuu = Good idea, executed horribly
                 Everyone = Autism

                 Reply

                 • Even though it’s simple and dull and didn’t require ::effort:: I prefer FFF’s. It does what it needs to while actually being readable and not hogging/blocking half the screen.

                   Reply

                   • I dunno, FFF’s Ep 3 kara doesn’t seem simple and dull.

                   • I hadn’t checked their EP3, seems they did some kfx now.

             • The fun thing is that the guy who did all the work on the OP isn’t even part of the group that released it, so that’s not really true…

               Reply

               • I’m talking about the end product, not the people behind it.

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                 • The only group that tried too hard was Commie. Hiryuu’s matched thematically, was readable, and looked great.

                   Reply

                   • I’m not a fan of either, but to each his own.

                   • The kara is fuckhuge and retarded, and since SAO is also fuckhuge and retarded, the two are well matched.

                 • We get it, Xythar: you don’t like kfx and you especially don’t it when people actually put effort into fansubbing.

                   Reply

                   • Two swings, two misses. A number of my own releases have had kfx and I am apparently one of the most tryhard fansubbers around, as people in this very thread would tell you.

                   • Why the fuck can I not reply to Xythar’s posts?

                     >A number of my own releases have had kfx
                     Could you thank lyger on my behalf?

                   • Clearly the kfx are there because we all tied Xythar to a chair and forced him to include them. I’m sure he himself totally hates kfx. That must be it.

                   • I did a couple too, though mine are still pretty basic.

                     I’m gonna assume you have no point left to make.

                   • The majority of fansubbers actually do like karaoke, though it’s a tsundere relationship where they just won’t admit it. If you look, releases from almost all major fansub groups nowadays have karaoke. The exception is Commie, and since Commie comprises about 70% of the fansub scene, it causes it to seem otherwise.

                     Though Commie I’m not sure what to buy of with them on OP/ED songs, since they are totally fine with adding extremely distracting typeset lyrics, but they find putting romaji in as too distracting. Trolling probably?

                   • >Though Commie I’m not sure what to buy of with them on OP/ED songs, since they are totally fine with adding extremely distracting typeset lyrics, but they find putting romaji in as too distracting. Trolling probably?

                     I wouldn’t even consider that trolling tbh. The typesetting done is amazing like that. It was especially more entertaining when watching Nisekoi with their typeset.

                   • Let’s get real here. The only fansubbers who really care about kara are typesetters/kfxers. Most editors (and translators for that matter) couldn’t give a toss what the kfx looks like, because for us, the script is way more important than the songs at the beginning and end that will be skipped after the first episode anyway :D

                   • I care about karaoke. :c

                   • Solaristics, it is also more distracting than unicorns exploding into rainbow sparkles that then drop all over the screen. Try watching the video with that kind of a karaoke, it is near impossible to do so.

                     A good karaoke has 3 characteristics:
                     1. It is readable
                     2. It does not distract the viewer
                     3. It is aesthetically pleasing

                     If you cannot get all 3 down, you should just put is static lyrics.

                   • @Kristen
                     4. Ignore all of above if karaoke is placed on a Sword Art Online episode.

                   • >Try watching the video with that kind of a karaoke, it is near impossible to do so.

                     Yes, the Karaoke was something I wouldn’t watch. That was bad. I couldn’t even read it.

                   • I’m using the following groups this season: Anime-Koi, Asenshi, FFF, Chyuu, DameDesuYo, Mezashite, Migoto, naisho, orz, Underwater, UTW, Vivid, Watashi, Commie, and Kaylith. Only four of these groups had kfxs this season for the shows I’m watching (26 in total) . Five if you include Vivid’s Hanayamata (their other releases had no kfx, though). It seems to me that, for the most part, groups avoid kfx. I remember Xythar saying a while ago that whether he uses kfx depends on the song, which is fair enough, but most groups leave out kfx completely.

                     @FalseDawn
                     What you’re saying is part true. The script is definitely the most important thing, but the reason most of us choose to wait days for fansubs over CR/Funi is for the complete package we get with fansubs — how the releases are better in every aspect, be in the translation, the video quality, the typesetting, or the karaoke. A good kfx adds to the entire viewing experience, which is what makes it worth waiting days — sometimes weeks — for a fansub release.

                     And the only time I ever skip OPs/EDs is if they’re shit and don’t even have a nice kfx to look at.

                   • >the releases are better in every aspect

                     Matter of opinion, that. In fact, I rarely watch fansubs nowadays because I don’t care all that much about TS/kfx/video quality. That’s all superfluous in my mind.

                     The official versions suit me fine :D

                   • @FalseDawn
                     What about when those offical subs are done by funi :P

                   • There are a *few* exceptions to the rule >.>

                     ^__^

                 • No, it’s not an opinion. Fansubs are objectively better when it comes to video quality, typesetting, and kfx (and also scripts, for the most part). Whether you care for these aspects or not doesn’t change the fact that fansubs still have better quality.

                   What suits you =/= what is objectively the best.

                   Reply

           • Shit taste confirmed.

             Reply

         • You need to hardcode the subs.

           Reply

           • sigh…Guess ill give it a shot.

             Reply

           • meh hardcoding keeps resizing my subs which kills them, you know any program capable of doing it without ruining them?

             Reply

             • What are you using to hardcode it? The reason why you probably end up with issues is due to lack of fonts. You need to extract the ones in the MKV and install them before encoding, else you end up with default Arial.

               I don’t really use any GUI, just x264 cli.

               Else, use this one: http://goo.gl/UmbfMB

               Download it, extract it, and you’ll end up with up two bats. Get the episode you want to hardcode, and drop it over “autohardsubber” or “autohardsubberhq” and let it do the rest.

               Reply

               • >else you end up with default Arial
                 *bangs head against wall*
                 Thanks i don’t know how that slipped my mind :(
                 https://vimeo.com/101409711

                 Reply

                 • This is great.

                   Reply

                 • You trimmed it too early.

                   It starts just before the OP animation, so the first line is missing. ;_;

                   Reply

                   • It’s your (timers) fault ;_; i split it by chapters using mkvmerge and then just uploaded OP…

                   • Encoder’s fault*

                     The encoder usually sets the chapters. Just so you know.

                   • i see my bad, encoder’s fault it is then :(

                   • No, it’s not the encoder’s fault. I’m the timer and I made the chapters. The way the karaoke was made is different; the first line starts in the scene before the actual OP so you will miss it if you trim it to the chapter.

                   • Also, you can only split at keyframes without re-encoding, so even if the chapter point was earlier it probably wouldn’t have split where you wanted it to.

         • I think conkerer did a great job on this, but it’s more of a tech demo than a karaoke. The older version I saw of this did not have the bottom part and I thought, “Wow, this looks fantastic!” It’s creative, nice way to add the the group’s name and fits the anime well. But now it takes up about a third of the screen, way too much. Maybe if elements were scaled down or it was on a 1080p release [blu-ray ofc] then it might be better. Also, all this attention to the karaoke, when there is no real “karaoke”; no syllables are highlighted lol…

           Anyways, I respect the work and this isn’t a shot against the artist, I just personally don’t think it fits well. :)

           Reply

           • Right now, the “karaoke” is not really done with kfx as most people would think of it. It’s more like typesetting that was stuffed into a template for automagic copy-pasting, so it’d be quite a chore to just “scale it down”. I kind of have to redo the karaoke to do put the new drawings back in the release, and I dunno if I should spend my time doing that instead of, say, typesetting another show.

             Reply

             • Aren’t there scripts to scale down typesetting elements? I remember seeing AI used, but not sure how exactly you did it. I guess it would take a full day or two still and typesetting another show is definitely more important. Personally though, I wouldn’t move on to other projects until fixing old ones… If you need a hand in the interest of time, I might be open to helping out where needed… <_< >_>

               Reply

   • It looks great but isn’t it a bit too obstructive?

     Reply

     • Hey, we had to make a shit show good somehow.

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       • Understandable :D

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       • Great fucking job with it, it’s just glorious. Makes your release completely stand out.

         Reply

8. Yes, because people are too stupid to understand how easy it is to throw a paper ball into a waste basket. How anymore self-explanatory can it get?

   I don’t see how a metaphor or analogy needs to be turned into an idiom in English.

   Reply

   • It sounds better that way, which makes the subs more enjoyable, which makes the show more enjoyable. Unless you just don’t want people to enjoy things, which is an interesting goal in its own way, but not one I necessarily agree with.

     Reply

     • I like how you try make your subjectiveness sound absolute.

       Reply

   • Because the only way to enjoy SAO is by shutting down ones brain and letting the spinal cord do the work. Metaphors are too hard for my spinal cord.

     Reply

9. Another point for Kristen. Commie is clearly trying to stupify the leechers by not including romanji.

   What will be next? FFF pandering to those with bad eyesight by having blur a bit too strong on all their signs?
   Tune in next time…

   Reply

   • They haven’t included romaji for years now. Nothing new under the sun. What was your point?

     Reply

   • You try so hard…

     Reply

10. I don’t see anything wrong in just putting the translation.

    Reply