51 thoughts on “Fansub Review: [FFF] Magic Kaito 1412 (Episode 06)”

1. >2015 will be different

   Uuuuhuuuh… You mean fansubbing will be deader than disco, Elvis, or Lenin?

   Reply

2. There must be an impostor, this is the only Detective Gumshoe I know of: http://goo.gl/8cpD6D

   lol

   Reply

   • Gummy! <3

     Reply

   • Ah, good ol’ Dick Gumshoe.

     “Don’t call me Dick, pal!”

     Reply

3. See you next illusion, Dark_Sage!

   Reply

4. FFF isn’t the hero we want but the hero we need.

   Reply

5. And hopefully they don’t think we deserve this.
   (edit button why you dissapear)

   Reply

6. >I get what you’re trying to go

   Reply

   • Proofreading was invented for a reason.

     Reply

7. Aw, but I thought you loved meee </3

   Reply

   • I do. This series just wasn’t a match for your style/mindset of editing.

     It seems you’re more focused right now on creating “proper” dialogue, rather than something more engaging/character-driven. Not like I don’t understand where you’re coming from; around 2008-2010 I had similar beliefs as to what editing was. It’s pretty common for editors to start in either “liberal” or “literal” camps as far as editing goes… but crossing between them is imperative for creating quality work.

     I’m fully confident that someone like you could turn around a top-tier character-focused script… eventually. But until you concentrate on creating natural dialogue that actually engages the viewer, you’re gonna be stuck in a rut.

     Reply

     • Actually, I started in the “idiot” camp back in 2007 subbing none other than Detective Conan, but that’s another story.

       Admittedly, you caught me on a bad week. This and Psycho Pass 2 were delayed by/suffered from my having a bit of writer’s block, but I’ll still explain some of my thought process where I had one:

       >I guess I’m the only one […]
       Yep, that was a total casualty. I didn’t even notice it! Will tweak for the batch.

       >3rd floor
       Hyphen rules are very lenient these days, to the point where many writers will actively discourage their use. I don’t think anyone would’ve confused the lines with “the third set of restrooms on this floor”, so I don’t think the critique is very sound. You’ll notice that I did use hyphens at the beginning of the episode in “second-year high-school student” for the sake of clarity within a line with such wordy modifiers. Plus, a “high” school student has its own set of implications that shouldn’t really be applicable in a kids’ show, whereas “3rd floor bathroom” doesn’t seem to suggest much.

       >Kudou Shinichi / Detective.
       “Inspector” Gumshoe goes by a different title in Japanese and in the translation, never having been referred to as “Detective” before. I think context clues are more than enough to get the point across, even if a colon could’ve been more concise (the colon, imo, would’ve “spoiled” the next bit of dialogue and come off as too intentionally/overtly conceited, which has its own set of problems for characterization).

       I’m a bit disappointed that you didn’t give “gumshoe” any credit, by the way! Not my idea at all–that was entirely the tl’s, and I loved it.

       >Th-That’s
       Sorry, but I abhor the stock-tl feel of “This is… [a situation I see]”. I’d rather tweak it to imply “That’s… [a cop, one of my men, something more ‘tangible’ (if you will)]”. I can’t agree with this being a problem to anyone but your average literalfag.

       >prey in clutches
       I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. You want me to be more poetic or vivid with this when Shinichi’s hermit crab line was too “contrived”? It’s a pattern of his to relate human behavior to animals’, and I think staying faithful to that is just fine… unless you wanted me to call him “a rat in a trap” or something? But that seems unnecessary.

       I should also note that puns and idioms are Gosho’s bread and butter. The bastard can’t think up enough of them, so I use a good number of them myself to reflect that. Kaito also uses a lot of alliteration, Jii talks like–wait for it–a grandfather, Aoko like a brat, Ginzou like a dumb gumshoe, etc.

       As for my editing style, I think it changes with the show I’m working on and the translator(s) I’m working with. I like to give a tl as much input as I can, so if someone wants to be more literal, that’s fine by me. Editing is really a secondary job, after all, and I trust the tls I work with to do justice to the source material.

       Reply

       • But both camps are “idiot” camps.

         Reply

       • The script had “Me so clever” scribbled across it with a half-eaten crayon. And I don’t care how tryhard you are, nobody should abuse idioms like you did here. I’m halfway to petitioning the UN to label it a crime against humanity.

         Look, I’m not sure what you want me to respond to here. You had an off-week, whatever. I can commiserate. But this shit is soullessly phoned-in, and I’m not gonna ignore that just because I liked some of the other releases you’ve put out there.

         Reply

         • That’s absolutely fine, and you’re entitled to that opinion. But a few of the little things in there–3rd floor, Kudou Shinichi/Detective, That’s/This is–are absolutely fine as well. They’re perfectly, plainly clear, the grammar is fine, and “docking points” for them, so to speak, is absurd.

           Reply

           • The detective is wondering what the hell is going on and then he makes a remark when he sees 3 out-of-commission cops.
             “that’s” just does not fit.

             Reply

             • lol. There are plenty of ways it could be interpreted since we don’t know what he would’ve said had he not trailed off. To say it “just does not fit” is just close-minded.

               Reply

           • 1. If you wanna argue shifting standards, that’s fine, but you better provide more evidence than “I know some writers who don’t like hyphens”. There are writers to whom punctuation is considered a dirty word, and I sure as fuck ain’t turning this into an “every sub is a special little snowflake” modern-art-bullshit blog.

             2. The Detective line was confusing to me as a viewer. I’m glad you got through it just fine, good for you, but it introduced doubt in my mind as to who exactly this new kid was.

             3. Viewers shouldn’t have to do mental gymnastics to figure out where you’re coming from with your lines. “Th-That’s” is an unnatural term to use for that scene, and unless you actively follow it up with something to indicate your thought process, you’re basically just hoping that the viewer leapt to the exact same conclusion you did. They usually won’t.

             Reply

             • 1. You’ve entirely missed the point here. I’m not going to go look up every article published in recent memory, but it’s been a stylistic choice for years now, not a rule. To treat it as such and condemn a line because you “don’t have evidence” only speaks to a lack of knowledge of copy editing. If you’re the one reviewing material that I work on, you shouldn’t need me to give you an English lesson.

               2. Have you seen the rest of the show? I don’t think anyone familiar with the source material should make that kind of mistake, but I am sorry that you did. If he were referring to the Inspector, I’d expect a comma to be what makes that ambiguous, not a period. You don’t say “Hello. Dark_Sage.”

               3. “Th-This is…” feels more out of place to me as a generitranslation, on top of requiring what I think is the same amount of thought to arrive at any conclusion. If you don’t prefer it, that’s fine, but the difference is literally one word–not that much leaping to do. Rather, your conclusion about my thought process appears more mentally contorted than the line itself.

               Reply

               • This anime isn’t necessarily made for people familiar with source material.

                 And even if the Japanese will be, most English viewers won’t have read Magic Kaito or read/watched Detective Conan to any significant degree.

                 Reply

                 • By “source material”, I only mean Magic Kaito as a series, not Detective Conan. If you know that Inspector Nakamori is an inspector–not a detective–then it shouldn’t throw you. He’s never been referred to with any other title, and to my knowledge, he never will be.

                   Reply

               • tl;dr ‘The detective.’ would sort out the ambiguity. Now move along, people, nothing to see here ;)

                 (Also, and I’m not sure if this is a thing outside the UK, but Detective Inspector is a rank in the police force, so differentiating between detective and inspector may not be immediately obvious)

                 Reply

                 • I’m fairly certain that that would change the meaning of the original line. As I read it now, the line reads like “Guy Noir, Private Eye,” where he stating his name and his title. What you stated would be more like a clarification of his identity. For example, “John Smith, the explorer,” as opposed to “John Smith, the 44th Governor of Maryland.” I would like to say that the two read rather differently. I don’t know which is the intended reading, but I thought I’d point that out.

                   Reply

                   • I see what you’re saying but when have you ever heard anyone say ‘detective’ *after* saying their name. Private Eye is one of the few that is often said after the name, whereas if you said a title after, you’d normally repeat your name: “Mike Rotch. *Dr* Mike Rotch” or something a bit more facetious “Doctor-at-large” or “Resident Breast Inspector” :D

                     Usually though, you’d stick the title in front of the name rather than afterwards, though I suppose the Japanese audio doesn’t really allow that.

                     As it happens, ‘Private Eye’ would be the best thing to call him as he isn’t actually affiliated with the police force, but the fact that he’s known as Detective Conan makes that a bit of a no-go. Having said that, ‘consulting detective’ might have been a nice touch because I believe that’s how Sherlock Holmes used to refer to himself (Conan, Sherlock, geddit?).

                     In fact, looking at Sherlock, when people weren’t sure who he was, he was always referred to as ‘the detective’. I don’t think it would really change the meaning of the line to have it like that – it’s only really confirming that he’s a detective (possibly even a famous one, which I’m guessing Conan is?), not to differentiate him with someone else of the same name.

                     Of course, I’m talking about Britdiction here – it may be different in American.

               • Nothing? I’m disappointed.

                 Reply

                 • MIA

                   Reply

                   • Dodging* ;)

                   • So you answer me 5 days after until he makes a post…

                   • I visit this site in spurts xD

     • The statements you’re making here don’t seem like ones you would’ve made after you reviewed Zankyou no Terror. Though maybe I just misinterpreted the praises there?

       Reply

       • Be more specific.

         Reply

         • She probably means that our Terror scripts were much more focused on characterization, and your statements agreed pretty firmly with that. I can certainly agree that Kaito wasn’t given the same sort of treatment, but pigeonholing my editing style as you’ve tried to do doesn’t make much sense.

           More importantly, do you have a response to my larger comment? xD

           Reply

           • *Your terror scripts. Saying “our” makes it sound like you worked with the same group as you did for this show, which isn’t the case. That said, this is exactly what I meant. A release that got an A+ and was praised for characterization, and now D_S says that its editor is too literal-minded? And I thought my memory was bad.

             Reply

             • You’ve been here too long to assume that an A+ on one release immediately results in an A+ on another. This isn’t Nyaa.

               Reply

               • That’s what you gathered from her post?
                 HA says that you praised his terror scripts for characterization, but now you’re all “You’ll get there someday, editor-kun.”
                 Just call it a lesser effort and move on, I guess.

                 Reply

                 • Doesn’t D_S not check who edited before doing the review? If anything, that’s good, as it helps prevent bias.

                   Insulting an editor whom he previously praised is just an unfortunate side-effect of the blind test. I’d hate for him to go “Oh hey, Jing edited this; better change my tone and opinion in the review!”

                   Reply

                   • We’re not talking about the review here. Scroll up and read the first comments between D_S and Jing.

                   • Editing skills do not transfer over perfectly from show to show. Breaking it down even further, writing skills do not transfer from genre to genre. You wouldn’t expect a top-rated historian to go out and write the next Naruto, for example. So even if someone kills it in one series, it’s not a guarantee they’ll perform at the same level in another… as perfectly illustrated here.

                   • >You wouldn’t expect a top-rated historian to go out and write the next Naruto, for example.

                     I’m sure they could write something much better.

                   • Things you can learn from Naruto: Love, trust, how to ninja run.
                     Things you can learn from history: Nothing.

                     The facts speak for themselves.

                   • @Dark_Sage

                     I agree that editing skills don’t transfer perfectly from show to show. I’m just saying it’s odd to state that you think an editor will eventually be able to put out great scripts, but they’re not there yet, when in the past they *have* put out great work. It’d make more sense to say “You’re capable of great work, but this is definitely not an example of you doing what you’re capable of.” Looking at your comment again I may have misinterpreted what you meant by it, but with your wording you can hardly blame me for thinking you were saying that this is representative of his work in general, but that you think he can and will improve with more experience. I’m not in any way arguing that this should get a higher grade, since from what I’m seeing here, this script definitely feels phoned in to the point where not even Jing himself is really happy with it.

                     tl;dr
                     Your first comment should have been less “you’re meh now, but you’ll be good in the future” and more “you’re good, but you were bad on this script.” Which is more in line with what your later comments said.

                   • She’s right–it was confusing to me as a reader. ;)

                   • I thought D_S didn’t look at staff before his reviews… How would he have even known who the editor was or the past scores he’s given him in that case?

                   • @Anon

                     What part of “we’re not talking about the review” are you missing?

     • Still waiting on a reply.

       Reply

       • D_S is probably onboard an airplane without internet connection now, so you won’t have any reply so soon.

         Reply

         • I mean, it’s not like he was on a plane for five days, so that was a bit of a dumb comment. Regardless, it was just a casual bump in case he forgot.

           Reply

           • Well, maybe it was a slow flight.

             Reply

       • Just got off my flight, gimme a bit.

         Reply

8. For what it’s worth, ‘licence’ was probably because British translator, and the editor didn’t catch it.

   Reply

   • Yeah, “license” would be completely wrong in British English as it’s only intended as a verb.

     Reply