This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.
MudaMudaMuda
(is the group’s full name)
Table of Contents
Release Information
Episode details.
Release format: MKV (430 MB, 8-bit)
Japanesiness: No honorifics.
English style: American English.
Encoding details: http://pastebin.com/Wq0dCpXM
Speed: Slow (>48 hours)
Note: They didn’t have chapters for this release.
External links.
Group website: http://mudasubs.tumblr.com/
IRC channel: N/A
SubCompare screenshot comparisons: http://www.subcompare.com/jojo%27s_bizarre_adventure/
Commie’s fansub reviews: http://notredrevie.ws/autumn-2012-reviews/#jojo
Visual Review
Karaoke.
Opening. I hated this style of font when I saw it in Commie’s Girls und Panzer and I hate it now. The letters are hard to make out and while I appreciate the inverse colors in comparison to the credits, readability matters more when you get down to it.
Rating: Bad.
The ED was in English so I’m not going to fault them for not having karaoke here.
Typesetting.
None of the reaction signs are typeset. Having watched Commie’s releases up until this review, I found the typesetting to provide a noticeable benefit, so it was a bit disappointing to see their absence in this release.
What typesetting skills.
Other.
Look at that font. What is this, 2003?
Script Review
Main Script.
This is not how commas work. Take the comma out of both lines and you’ll be fine.
I fucking love the way they draw out the personalities of the characters with their word choice in the script. I really can’t praise them enough for how they handled Speedwagon — it was fucking ace.
Yuck. Try to avoid using “like” twice in a line if you can ever help it. It sticks out like a boner in PE.
“Getting to know you was like having both a best friend and a son.”
>zombies
>breed
Yeah, okay.
Yes, “oy” is a word. But it’s Yiddish, and you’re not using it right. (It’s basically a declaration of exasperation.)
In this context, “Hey” would be the appropriate substitute.
But English not. :(
Oh come on. You really couldn’t make it, “This man is already dead!” ? It’d totally fit, I promise.
This script has 110 ellipses over 201 lines of dialogue. That’s fucking insane and completely unacceptable.
When your script has more periods than a Pinterest post, you need to fundamentally reconsider your editing choices.
Results
Watchability: Watchable.
Visual grade: D
Script grade: B-
Overall grade: C
You know when you’re filling out your tech tree and you’ve got everything right, but you choose the wrong branch at the last minute and it fucks you over? That’s what this release feels like. It’s as if this group put all their points in Nose Picking rather than Modern Fansubbing, and that’s a damn shame.
Of the three groups on this show that I’m reviewing — Nutbladder, MMM, and Commie — I found MMM to have the best script and the worst visuals. Don’t take the B- as an indication that the script is at the level most scripts I assign that grade are. Technical errors and a lack of QC brought down what I thought was an otherwise very precise and enjoyable script.
But ultimately, this is 2012 and the kind of shit the members of this group got away with in the past doesn’t fly nowadays. However, if you feel like you can ignore the dust and rust all over this release, you’ll have an enjoyable experience with subs that are fundamentally decent.
You should review gg’s like you review Hadena.
Hm, is this an oldskool editor then? A lot of the editing choices look circa 2003. Never heard of MMM before though.
I believe it’s by some guys from the toku scene, though I’m not certain as to who.
The guy translating is from Over-Time, and has also been translating Ippo for Ignition One. The rest of the staff is from KITsubs, a toku group working on the original Kamen Rider.
I’ll own up to that. I’m the editor. Yes, I’m old. I’m crotchety about the English language, and I would like you to vacate my lawn so that I may have more room for elderly reminiscing.
>Yes, “oy” is a word. But it’s Yiddish, and you’re not using it right. (It’s basically a declaration of exasperation.)
Here in England, people would use it how it was used in the subtitles. However, I think that the proper spelling would be “oi”.
Yeah, good point. “Oi” would work.
Hey guys, this is Jeeg from MMM. I really appreciate the feedback you guys have given us, and I want to incorporate some of these changes into our batch release.
If you have any other suggestions or comments, I would love to hear them.
On my use of commas: Most of the time, the excessive use of commas is my fault entirely. I stand by them, because I was a linguistics and communications major. Commas are the backbone of civilization.
On the stuttering: Ellipses for pauses, especially with repeated words. Dashes for syllables or words that get cut short. It’s a rule of thumb, and one that I stick by. If there is a more colloquially accepted way to convey these things, then let me know.
And finally, aside from my particularly ridiculous choice for OP font, my philosophy has always been not to distract from the style of the show with typesetting. It may be old fashion, by it is a style choice. It does what it says on the tin, and such.
And yes, Oi is the more appropriate spelling. We’ll get on that for the v2s. Thanks again!
Having two stuttering standards is… actually something I’ve never seen before (and you appeared to have four in this release anyway). In the anime fansub scene we almost always do every stutter with dashes. In my opinion, the best practice for stuttering is: Linked-dash stuttering (no spacing between the dash), capitalization follows the beginning of the word being stuttered, and stuttering is done by “syllable” (it’s not really a syllable though… I guess you’d call it the first “logical part”?).
For example:
“Wh-What’s up, D-David?”
This would be acceptable if you go by capitalization only where required by pronoun and stuttering done on the first letter only, but I’m not exactly keen on it:
“W-what’s up, D-David?”
Ok, I see how that makes a lot more sense for stuttering.
But what about a line like Zeppeli’s final words, where many of the words and being drawn out with long pauses in between. For lines like those, I feel like the ellipses are essential to conveying the tone of the scene.
Take episode 9 for example, when Jonathan is sputtering out Erina’s name. Normally even I wouldn’t indulge in such ellipsery, but to show that pause as he tries to speak is, in my opinion, an important way to convey the tone of the scene to a non native speaker.
In my opinion, if you can hear the pause, it’s not really necessary to include it in the subs.
There’s a grey area, but at the point where you need to include four sets of ellipses in a single line you have to ask yourself if you’re sacrificing readability for something that should be obvious anyway.
Personally, I prefer to use ellipses mostly just at the end of partial lines (including lines that have been split into two because of a significant pause) and maybe mid-line for the occasional case where the pause is really, really pronounced. In a lot of cases, if you find yourself with multiple ellipses in a single line, either you’re overdoing it and using them for pauses that aren’t really significant enough to be emphasised, or the line should be split for dramatic effect anyway.
That’s my two cents.
I think part of it too is that my background is writing. But we’ve had some compliments over the way we’ve handled the “serious” moments like Zeppeli’s death, so I might stick with what we’re doing.
To a degree.
I can definitely understand why, when combined with all of the other instances, the ellipses can start to get out of hand.
> On the stuttering: Ellipses for pauses, especially with repeated words. Dashes for syllables or words that get cut short. It’s a rule of thumb, and one that I stick by. If there is a more colloquially accepted way to convey these things, then let me know.
En-dash for stuttering (repeated capitalization if required), ellipses for pauses and repeated words, em-dash for words that are cut short. Which is pretty much what you described and not at all what was screenshoted. Basically, there is no rhyme or reason behind what was made it into the release, so tell your QC what style you’re using and have him slap you every time you mess up.
> On my use of commas: Most of the time, the excessive use of commas is my fault entirely. I stand by them, because I was a linguistics and communications major. Commas are the backbone of civilization.
Both of the above example show an adverbial (phrase) at the end of a sentence. You don’t ever place a comma in that situation (note: in some cases the existence of the comma turns a restrictive adverbial clause into a nonrestrictive clause, but since in the process the adverbial part gets lost, my statement stands).
You should always use a comma to set off conversational interjects towards nouns of direct reference, simple utterances, and minor interjections. It’s a literary tool more so than a linguistic rule, but it is one of the more important uses for the comma.
*Interjections, obvs.
What do you mean by conversational interjections? I’m often lost when terminology starts flying around, so forgive my ignorance. Surely you don’t mean that you use commas to introduce pauses?
Actually, that’s a major use of commas in literature. But I try to avoid displaying pauses like that in fansubs.
A conversational interjection would be something we wouldn’t normally write out, but we might say in conversation. So, for example:
“Go to the store and buy me some eggs.”
versus
“Hey you, egg-buying boy! Go buy me some eggs, you jerk!”
“Hey you” being the interjection here. “Egg-buying boy” and “you jerk” being colloquial forms of address. ;)
I prefer to think of them more as official titles. Jerks work hard to earn their jerk badge.
But official titles get capitalized when used as forms of address. :D
I like the cut of your jib…
Which is something I wholeheartedly agree with, but what you have in the above examples are neither interjections, nor utterances. “These past three years” and “yet” (as used above) are both adverbial modifiers of time.
As a reminder to make sure we’re on the same page, the sentences were:
1) “You’ve done well to endure the hardships of your training,[sic] these past three years.”
2) “And I haven’t even seen Tarkus use this room to his full advantage,[sic] yet!”
Ah, I see where our wires are getting crossed on those. Yes, those are wrong. That’s a QC issue, and one that will be corrected in the v2s.
Full disclosure: Aside from the translator, none of us (and there are only three of us) have had any experience with a weekly series before, so the time scale can be a little overwhelming. Not to mention the fact that we have nobody working on distribution or typesetting as an actual task in the group.
Well, you’re doing better than I did on my first script, that’s for sure. ^^
Oh man, my first scripts were a mess. I basically cut my teeth over at KITsubs doing everything besides the translations. The vintage Tokusatsu scene is very different from the modern anime scene. They more than appreciate the simple typesetting and plain fonts, they demand it. This was a whole new world for me.
Ah, you see – that answers my question. Because from the editing style in this, I could tell that the decisions made weren’t wrong, necessarily – just outdated. Some of the ellipsis usage and stock phrasing was more prevalent five or six years ago in the anime fansub world, but they’ve kinda fallen by the wayside as fansub editing has developed, creating new “standards” as we all seem to dub them.
But yeah, I meant nothing by the “old” remark – I mean, I’m classed as old in fansubbing terms these days :O
Our translator is a dyed in the wool old school geek too. Which is why we’re friends, and why our ellipses will never die. But we’re trying… Hopefully the typesetting improvements will offset our word style, and make it seem more like a conscious effort to appeal to a certain sense of style.
As for stock phrasing, I’m pretty nitpicky with those. I REALLY hate the typical “Can’t be helped” and “It’s much too cruel” lines. If those are the way of the future, then I shall plant my feet in the past!
Stock translations trended for a while but they’re not the preferred method of translation anymore.
Anime fansubbing is doing quite well in terms of quality right now. Things used to be much worse.
I don’t think we really use any of those (stock translations, that is)
Unless I’m totally oblivious as to what those are…
Anyway, I’d REALLY like it if you guys came back in a few episodes and gave us another look. We’re taking your suggestions to heart, and working with some friends to make those improvements. We’ll be rolling most of those out for Part 2, and we’d love the feedback.
No, you’re right. I wasn’t accusing you of doing so — just saying that stock phrases aren’t the way of the future because they’re already in our past.
As for giving your subs another look, that’s unfortunately not something I can easily agree to. Reason being, re-reviews in a season are constantly requested (and denied). Were I to respond favorably to every request, my schedule through this season and a bit of the next would be filled. And were I to agree only to a few requests, well then I’m playing favorites, and you can imagine how well that would go down. So I’m afraid I can’t give you a re-review.
However, if JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure gets extended into a second season, I wouldn’t mind reviewing it during that season. Hell, I’ll promise to add it to my queue in that event. But until then, your improvements will just have to benefit the experience of your viewers (several of whom were very adamant that I review your subs whenever I had the chance). :P
But Part 2: Battle Tendency is practically a different show from Part 1: Phantom Blood :P
Understandable policy. See ya next year then! (hopefully, lack of confirmation for adaptation of Part 3: Stardust Crusaders is killing me)
Well, I hope you’ll at least check us out on your own at least. And it’s an understandable policy! I’m not one to fight the system. We just want to make beautiful music.
* I said at least twice because I don’t proof read my own damn posts. Oh, what cruel fate.