80 thoughts on “Translation Review: [KiteSeekers] 12-Sai. ~Kiss, Kirai, Suki~ OVA”

1. “Yet they someone managed to make a bunch of mistakes,”

   I think you want “somehow.”

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   • Fixed.

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2. You guys need to review more popular shows to satisfy us nobody watches this Kokujin-kun

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   • Well that’s clearly a lie because kokujin-kun must have watched it to be able to review it :)

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   • I like to feature works of all fansubbers, not just the popular ones.

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     • it’s more about which show, not which group but point taken

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3. I’m not with KiteSeekers, though I do occasionally watch their releases.

   So anyway I just discovered this site. The thing I’m wondering about is why the people here put so much attention into reviewing fansubs of shows that will probably only ever be subtitled in English once. Not sure if ya got the memo, but sometimes we just have to take what we can get or not watch it at all. So I don’t see the point of getting crazy and looking for ways to pick apart a solo act that’s doing a pretty noble thing regardless of the quality.

   Not to mention, for people who don’t speak Japanese, a lot of the translation errors aren’t even noticeable until you pick them out.

   And lastly, wouldn’t it be more productive to just spend more time fansubbing, instead of doing something like this on a regular basis?

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   • 1.) You may be satisfied with mediocrity, but there are other people (including me) that aren’t

     2.) Looking at the response we get, it’s certainly a hell of a lot more fun flinging poo at bad fansubs.

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     • 1.) Then why don’t you just sub it yourself? No matter how much you bitch and whine the fan-subbers aren’t going to just suddenly sub to your A+ standards.

       2.) Yea, real mature.

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       • 1.) I actually did talk to toster about subbing this, but without a DVD iso, we decided not to bother.

         2.) If you can’t take the heat, yadda yadda.

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   • In my opinion it’s better to not translate a show than translate it poorly.

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     • So basically you rather not know what they are saying at all than to at least get a partial understanding of what you’re watching? This is just being a spoiled brat taking shit for granted.

       “If I don’t get the blue candy, I don’t want any candy at all”.

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       • I’d rather not know what they’re saying at all than get an incorrect understanding of what they’re saying.

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         • It’ll only be incorrect if you can’t already decipher some of it yourself. I was speaking on behalf of the high level people (like me) that can recognize most of the Japanese words by now. And people who have dealt with foreigners before so they can also decipher the Engrish if need be.

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           • So why do “high level people” like you watch subs you know have translation errors all over again? Wouldn’t it be better to watch raws?

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             • Sigh.. I can’t stand taking to people who can’t read with low comprehension levels. And what the hell are you talking about “all over again”?

               Even if it has errors I can still get a partial understanding of it. I’m saying that’s better than not understanding any of it at all. You decipher it with the help of the incorrect subs. Because in the end the entire translation won’t be wrong. Unless they’re troll subs. “DUDE”

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               • Way to dodge the question.

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                 • Another guy who can’t read, greaaaaaat. Wait, did you change your name? Topkek. You’ll always be DUDE to me bro.

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                   • Wow, that’s a completely valid and mature way to respond.

               • I may be wrong here, but I’m pretty sure you don’t translate under the assumption that people reading your translation can understand the original language at a “high level.”

                 As I understand it, you translate for the people who don’t understand the language. That’s the guideline, and under that guideline, conveying a “partial understanding” of what’s being said is bad and can be worse than not translating it at all.

                 Or am I just misunderstanding why translation exists?

                 (Hint: I’m not actually misunderstanding why translation exists.)

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                 • In my opinion something is better than nothing.(excluding troll subs) As I said before speaking on behalf of the high level people. Even when translated badly at least some of us can still get an understanding of what’s being said. And I think that’s better than nobody understanding it at all. So how can it be bad when there are still a few people out there that can understand and enjoy it?

                   >I may be wrong here, but I’m pretty sure you don’t translate under the assumption that people reading your translation can understand the original language at a “high level.”

                   The people who sub this way are usually novices that wanna help out the people who aren’t picky, the impatient people, or people that can partially understand it. In the end It’s your choice to download it or not.

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                   • It’s bad, because it’s not actually helping anyone. You can get enjoyment/partial understanding from it? So what?

                     They should be judged by how well they convey meaning in the target language, not by how theoretically possible it is for someone who sort of understands the original language to make the necessary corrections in their head.

                     That’s like saying, “Hey, don’t correct that guy’s English paper, because I can still kind of figure out what he’s trying to say.” It doesn’t help anyone, builds bad practices based on a false assumption of correctness, and can even be markedly detrimental if the message isn’t being accurately conveyed.

                     In short, you can’t ignore problems just because you can kind of work around them. You have to call them out.

                   • “The people who sub this way” are usually idiots who think they know a lot more than they do. You’ll never see these kind of people put any disclaimers in their about the release being full of translation errors and to only watch it if you’re ok with the subs being partial guesswork and not necessarily representing what’s actually being said. Likewise, they also have the tendency to get mad and call you a troll if you point out that said errors do in fact exist.

               • Here’s another one. “I don’t know Japanese but I can understand stand it.”

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                 • Stay out of Grown ups conversations because that is not what I conveyed here.

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       • Also your analogy makes no fucking sense. The blue candy in this case would taste like shit or be poisonous or be anything else undesirable.

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         • “I know you are but what am I”

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           • How does that even apply? You’re a funny guy.
             Bookmarked like it’s 2004.

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       • Sigh, do you want us to bring back Hadena?

         It can be done, you know.

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         • Hadena reviews were hilarious, I’d be for it. Not that I’d ever watch any of the releases.

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         • Oh please don’t, just remembering their scripts sends shivers down my spine.

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       • If I want a partial understanding I’ll watch it raw.

         I’d rather not end up with an incorrect understanding from an incorrect translation, and I would especially not want people who know no Japanese at all to come off with totally the wrong idea.

         In addition, having any kind of translation available for something, even if it is a shitty one, reduces the likelihood that someone will translate it properly.

         So yes, I think bad translations are actively harmful and people who don’t know enough Japanese to translate properly (and that is a lot of Japanese) have no business trying unless they have someone who does know enough Japanese check their work for them.

         (Also worth noting: a pretty significant chunk of fansub “translators” out there, and nearly all “scanlators” and “LN translators” don’t know anywhere close to enough Japanese.)

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         • The creator of eotens himself comes out to play.

           >If I want a partial understanding I’ll watch it raw.

           That’s your personal preference. And if you’re able to partially understand it raw then if the script isn’t 100% inaccurate it’ll be even more helpful.

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           • Oh great, Renderer came back…

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             • LOL

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             • I’m not renderer I was just using some of his lines. In the end that guy most of us ROFL.

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               • I think only Renderer would be capable of finding Renderer funny, so that seems like proof enough to me.

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                 • >Trying to get me banned because I insulted Commie.

                   I won’t come between your relationship with them anymore, Gosh I’m sorry man don’t hold a grudge.

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                 • I think that settles it.

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           • I feel pretty much exactly the same as Xythar here. I can get a partial understanding just from seeing what’s going on and hearing how they speak even if I don’t understand more than “konnichiwa sayonara”.

             If the script is only right at the places I would be able to figure out myself, then it’s not going to be helpful. Plus, if it’s wrong in some of the places I figured out myself, I won’t be able to trust the translation for the parts I don’t get.

             Also, as Xythar said, people are less likely to put out better quality subs when subs already exist for a series. So, if the group can only guess whether they’re right or wrong, I’d personally also rather not see them do the subbing.

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   • People not being able to realize what was and wasn’t accurately translated is exactly WHY translation reviews are valuable. Believe it or not, some people are actually interested in knowing whether those English lines of text presenting themselves as translations of the Japanese dialogue actually ARE translations of the Japanese dialogue or not.

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4. It’s only satisfaction in the sense that many anime are subbed by just 1 group so it’s either that or nothing at all. But there is certainly a level of low quality that even I will raise my nose at. However, if no mediocre fansubs existed, we’d have a lot less anime available to watch.

   It’s not like I don’t see the point or fun in any of this though. I just think it’d be better to ‘fling poop’ at anime with multiple releases, because the comparison is actually useful. And why not leave the solo acts be? Because bottom line is what they’re doing is a positive thing, regardless of your own personal satisfaction. One might think a fansubber of all people, who gets subjected to the average anime viewers rude behavior and sense of entitlement, might understand that. Especially considering how pissy some of the people over at Saizen get when people start to act rude…

   I’d also point out it’s a little different for someone who knows Japanese and doesn’t have to rely on fansubs to begin with.

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   • Yes, you’re right that it’s a lot more useful to do comparisons for animes that are oversubbed, but I don’t think that just because someone is a solo act it gives them an excuse to put out a bad product. I see doing things like this serves as a kind of check and very necessary constructive feedback since fansubbers like to live in their own little bubbles. I know I would have liked to have this kind of feedback back when I first started out, even if I didn’t know I needed it back then.

     I also want to give relatively unknown fansubbers credit if they do a good job on a show.

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     • Then just save the solo acts for last duhhhhhh, problem solved. I hate it when like 10 different groups come out of now where and gang bang the shit out of one anime when there are so much other stuff that needs to be subbed. For example: Kyoukai no Kanata! UTW, FFF, Commie, and Mezashite basically got together, got drunk, and decided “hey lets all fuck the shit out of Kyoukai no Kanata”, Kampai”.

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       • I’m not too overly fond of oversubbing either, but that doesn’t mean relatively unknown subbers should be put on the back of the bus.

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         • Yea, but some of those are just troll subs like DameDame. A lot of them aren’t really even doing it to the best of their ability, so we already expect there to be a good amount of mistakes. So it’s kind of a waste of time to review those kind of subs, unless they are at least watchable or a new golden egg.

           Kinda like this one you just reviewed. Fansubbers like to use these low res retarded looking anime for practice. I already expected this to be C or D tier.

           Hentai!! Yea that’s the word I was looking for. Reviewing this OVA was basically like reviewing a hentai bro. Who does that?

           Also Kokujin-kun not trying to criticize your reviewing ways but, Your reviews seem like a lot less, I don’t know “reviewed” than D_S reviews. Like where is your overall score and the different scores for different Criteria and shit? Your SEN reviews just got “failed”.

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           • They got “failed” because they were fakesubs, not fansubs. That’s for groups who don’t add anything but mistakes to CR-ripped scripts. He says this at the beginning of the reviews

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             • I already know why they got failed sir. If you re-read the sentence I’m asking him why he didn’t score everything like D_S does. I’m questioning the review method itself.

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               • Because they are fakesubs, not fansubs, D_S does the same thing but uses “Disqualified” instead of “failed”. If you re-read the sentence you’ll see I already addressed that.

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                 • In his review he didn’t address them as “fakesubs” he said “simulcast edit”. And even D_S has scored simulcast edits before.

                   Go away pleb. If you re-re-read the sentence you’ll see I was speaking to Kokujin-kun. He doesn’t need his fan club members to answer for him. “DUDE”

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                   • For almost a second you’re serious and then you just have to go back to being a useless troll.

                   • Fine I’ll bite. With crunchyedits, you’re basically grading the same script over and over again. Sometimes it’s reworded, sometimes it’s not, but it’s still essentially the same translation.

                     And with the same translation, you get (guess what) the same score as the original script. What I won’t stand is when people add errors to scripts they ripped someplace else. If you can’t do something as simple as not adding mistakes, you don’t deserve a grade.

                     As for different criteria, I think “liberalness score” “difficulty” or whatever are highly subjective and subject to debate, and in the end you’re not getting any brownie points if you fuck up subbing something like a Monogatari series because it’s so “difficult.” At the end of the day, all we care about is if the script is accurate and readable.

       • >Kampai

         die

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5. @Nyangoro at this point you’re just taking shit around in a circle.

   >It’s bad, because it’s not actually helping anyone. You can get enjoyment/partial understanding from it? So what?

   You contradicted yourself in this line. It’s helping people because they can get enjoyment/partial understanding from it. We watch anime for entertainment/enjoyment purposes in the first place. Not for proper grammar and punctuation. a lot of people don’t even care or notice most of the errors pointed out on this site until they come here. In my opinion it makes anime less enjoyable.

   >They should be judged by how well they convey meaning in the target language, not by how theoretically possible it is for someone who sort of understands the original language to make the necessary corrections in their head.

   I wasn’t talking about judging anything, all I’m saying is make due with what you have/ somthing is better than nothing. It will still help some people out.

   >That’s like saying, “Hey, don’t correct that guy’s English paper, because I can still kind of figure out what he’s trying to say.” It doesn’t help anyone, builds bad practices based on a false assumption of correctness, and can even be markedly detrimental if the message isn’t being accurately conveyed.

   …Dude no it’s not.

   >Comparing English papers in school with a bilingual person’s anime fansub translations by sound.

   Topkek.

   Like I said it’s just novices doing a quick job for the impatient people or people who aren’t picky.

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   • >Like I said it’s just novices doing a quick job for the impatient people or people who aren’t picky.

     Which is actively harmful. If some idiot rushes out a translation that is half wrong, tens of thousands of people who don’t know better will watch it, and tens of thousands more will watch it after it gets picked up by the streaming sites, ripped by other groups, and basically reproduced all over the place.

     If you translate something, you have a duty of care to do it properly. If you lack the ability to do it properly, you should have enough personal responsibility to realise that about yourself, and abstain.

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     • Which is actively harmful. If some idiot rushes out a translation that is half wrong, tens of thousands of people who don’t know better will watch it, and tens of thousands more will watch it after it gets picked up by the streaming sites, ripped by other groups, and basically reproduced all over the place.

       > Wait what are you talking about, reproduced? Who the fuck is going to reproduce a novice translation all over the place? Xythar are you a native english speaker?

       And when a actual notable fansub group releases their release you can always download their version later.

       >If you translate something, you have a duty of care to do it properly

       Tell that to Commie on your way back to their house.

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       • This may come as a shock to you, but Commie has a fairly difficult TL test and only employs translators who know what they’re doing.

         Yes, I know, your response will be something along the lines of “hurf durf I don’t know enough Japanese to translate myself but I can totally tell they’re wrong becuause muh liberal subz”. One needs look no further than the grades their translators get from people who actually know what they’re talking about.

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         • Xythar calm down the Commie thing was just a joke. my god, I see I accidently hit the Commie defense button.

           I’ve never seen you so angry before. I’m sorry man.

           >This may come as a shock to you, but Commie has a fairly difficult TL test and only employs translators who know what they’re doing.

           I have I question though to me it seems they started doing this after they fired everybody that day. They upped the standards for Commie staff no?

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           • It’s been like that for as long as I’ve been there.

             In those two and a half years, maybe three or four people have passed the TL test out of 30+ applicants.

             That should tell you just how unqualified people who think they can translate anime really are.

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             • Then why did they fire everybody? They must have changed some kind of requirements for subbing in their group. Or was it just a lack of effort on the X-fan-subbers’ part?

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               • They didn’t fire anyone. Your guess is as good as mine as to why they wrote an article saying they’d fired everybody.

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                 • What would you do if they fired you? Would you like become a stripper? Male strippers make a lot of money believe it or not. My aunt’s friend’s ex became a male stripper and he is gay now but atleast he has a nice car and apartment. Posted his gay pics all over Facebook. Had to unfriend my aunt just to delete him from my feed.

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                   • I barely do any work for Commie anymore, Renderer. I edit maybe one show for them per season, and sometimes not even that.

                     Makes me wonder why you bother when your comments aren’t funny and you don’t actually know anything about anyone you’re trying to insult.

   • It’s not helpful. It’s an incorrect translation. A translation is only helpful if it conveys the line properly.

     You get partial understanding from a bad translation? Then you’re either getting wrong understanding, or you didn’t need the translation in the first place.

     You get enjoyment from a bad translation? Great, but that has nothing to do with understanding what’s being said. Considering that the point of translation is to convey meaning from one language to another, simple enjoyment of a wrong line isn’t exactly helpful.

     “In my opinion it makes anime less enjoyable.”

     Correcting for the sake of more accurate translations make anime less enjoyable? How? Do you find (willful) ignorance of a line’s meaning enjoyable? If you don’t want to know what the line is actually saying, then why are you watching it in the first place?

     “I wasn’t talking about judging anything, all I’m saying is make due with what you have/ somthing is better than nothing. It will still help some people out.”

     1) Then why are you even commenting here in the first place?

     2) It’s already been said multiple times why “something is better than nothing” is not always a true statement. It certainly isn’t here.

     “…Dude no it’s not.”

     Nah, it definitely is. Since I’m addressing correcting issues vs ignoring issues, they are comparable. Both are text that don’t convey the intended meaning properly, only partially.

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     • At this point you’re just getting butthurt cuz you’re wrong. In the end it comes down to opinion and you keep bringing this conversation right back to where it started.

       >A translation is only helpful if it conveys the line properly.

       So basically if you’re saying if the line is not perfect it is unhelpful. Also this your personal opinion.

       >You get partial understanding from a bad translation? Then you’re either getting wrong understanding, or you didn’t need the translation in the first place.

       Third option: Or you already know a little bit of Japanese but not to the point where you can understand and entire script yet. Hence the BIG BAD translation will help people like that get a full understanding by filling in the holes. I did mention before that I was speaking on behalf of those kinds of people.

       >Correcting for the sake of more accurate translations make anime less enjoyable? How? Do you find (willful) ignorance of a line’s meaning enjoyable?

       Yea all this shit takes the fun out of anime. All this reviewing and who’s the best makes it so dull. I should have stuck with english dub. And I find ignorance of a lines meaning enjoyable because I can actually understand what the line is trying to say with my High level skills. I did mention this before.

       >If you don’t want to know what the line is actually saying, then why are you watching it in the first place?

       When the fuck did I say I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SAYING? the whole reason of downloading the big bad subs is so I it can help me figure out what they are trying to say. You need to lay off the catnip Nyangoro.

       1) Then why are you even commenting here in the first place?

       Cuz I can.

       2) It’s already been said multiple times why “something is better than nothing” is not always a true statement. It certainly isn’t here.

       Like I give a damn.

       Lol Nah, no the fuck it’s not. In your little comparison only that one aspect was comparable. That’s like saying “Hurrr durr the monkey and da whale are the same because dey ar mammals duhhhh”.

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       • >Third option: Or you already know a little bit of Japanese but not to the point where you can understand and entire script yet. Hence the BIG BAD translation will help people like that get a full understanding by filling in the holes.

         But you won’t understand those parts either if the translator is wrong about the parts you don’t know. And guess what they’re most likely to get wrong? The difficult parts.

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         • No but he is a high level non-fluent Japanese speaker, he only needs some parts…
           /s

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           • Right, but like I just said, those same parts are the ones most likely to be misinterpreted by a poor translator. Unless you’re trying to be ironic here and it’s going over my head.

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             • I think that’s what the sarcasm tag is for

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               • ‘s’ is strikethrough, dammit

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6. Bye (again), Renderer. You could’ve stayed if you weren’t so damn boring with your trolling.

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7. While this is all a troll, I’m going to refute the whole argument and end the conversation right here and now.

   We at Saizen recently subbed the second Attack on Titan OAD and while I was checking what people were talking about on other sites regarding the episode itself (not just specifically our sub of it), I came across someone who was adamant there was a plothole in it. This viewpoint was challenged, and the plothole expert pointed to a line about a character who died in the series in a certain year but was being referred to as being dead despite the OAD taking place before his onscreen death.

   Now, this confused me slightly as I’d edited Saizen’s release and couldn’t immediately bring to mind any line that referenced any dead characters. So I looked back through and the ONLY line with reference to this particular character was about him going to see his parents (which meant he was very much alive).

   So I surmised that this plothole theorist hadn’t watched our release at all but had watched a YouTube subbed version of it (which has since been taken down due to copyright claims so I can’t double check this theory), and that the guesslator who’d produced the subs had heard the name and assumed what was being said instead of accurately translating the line.

   That thoroughly confused at least one fan (and made them look pretty silly when I called them out on it because I never got a reply :D) and all because someone translated an episode of anime when they didn’t have a clue what they were doing.

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   • Is it me, or you posted this once in the past already? I remember I read somewhere something very similar to this.

     Though I very much agree that, in most cases, a guesswork can and will cause misunderstandings to the viewers.

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     • I’m pretty sure I haven’t recounted this before on here, as it was only fairly recently that it happened, but as this was in a MAL topic, you may have read the source, as it were :D

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       • That may be the case then :D

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8. @D_S

   I actually wasn’t trolling this time though. I clearly won that argument. And if you’re going to call all this trolling you’re making Nyangoro, Kokujin-kun, and the other 2 guests look like idiots for engaging in conversation with me.

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   • Fine, you can defend your argument if you have an honest one. I wasn’t exactly reading what was being posted here, since I like to be laissez faire when it comes to koku/Caly threads.

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   • You won? Ha. Which argument were you watching? I think you’ll find I ended it :D

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   • Oh, don’t worry about me. I’d actually feel relieved to know that you were trolling.

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9. Starting with something personal: I do minor translations in a scanlation group. If asked to translate subs, I could probably do it, but I’d be very slow. I find my personal pace a little slower, in a more recreational sense, which allows me to review and edit myself as much as possible before I turn in the translation to the editor. To that extent, as an amateur translator, I highly value and respect a diverse English vocabulary and profound knowledge on English grammar.

   Really, why are people posting all the arguments against the reason for having better English and accurate translations? Can someone please read Fahrenheit 451 (or watch Toshokan Sensou if you can’t stand books)? There’s a good reason why we value the traditional nature of our language rather than accept our personal preferences of cooing and crying like infants (some sources indicate that this is what we call the effect of institutionalized education). Ask anyone that majored in or studied Communications on the purpose of language and the point should strike home.

   I personally enjoy this site, especially in regards to editing. Sometimes I’ll even pick up words from the mistakes that are marked here and will apply them to my own translations. In that sense, I’m very thankful that there is a demographic that demands and supports the care that should go into any translation, and I hope that every translator and editor can share this feeling.

   >…and that the guesslator who’d produced the subs had heard the name and assumed what was being said instead of accurately translating the line

   That moment when Japanese -> Chinese -> English subs invade the purity of translation. Very typical.

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