This post was written by Dark_Sage. He is Dark_Sage.
This is quite different from Doki’s. I’m not sure they even translated from the same script.
Release Format: MKV (10-bit, 302 MB), AVI (223 MB)
Japanesiness: Honorifics. ~de arimasu.
Font: Why would they use a font which reverses the direction of apostrophes? Ugh.
Karaoke.
Opening. It started out okay, but this shit is just way too distracting, especially because as the lines continue, they burn away the previous words. This means you have to read the kara at the pace they set, which is wildly inconsistent.
Ending. Is this supposed to be… good? Cuz it’s not. More generic, random kara.
Typesetting.
The typesetting works and it’s mostly better than Doki’s.
Script.
The holiday is New Year’s Day. Not New Years Day. If it was New Years Day, we’d be celebrating multiple new years. This may come as a shock to you, but the holiday actually is meant to celebrate the coming new year; not every single new year that is going to occur. Either SS-Eclipse didn’t know this (Hi guys, welcome to English) or they were just too stupid to get it right.
This is coming off “Happy New Year’s!” and is intended to be her polite response. Unfortunately, this is not how you respond to a holiday greeting. It works for things like:
“It’s a pleasure to meet you.” “Likewise.”
But here? No. The proper response would be “Same to you, Ike-kun.”
This is… supposed to be one full sentence? Jesus, something got fucked up here. Just separate them.
“But not now.”
“We have a sliver of hope left.”
What is this
“…but that midget doesn’t think he actually disappeared.”
So either an Outlaw is a person or a location. Okay, I got it…
Okay, Outlaw as a location/building/etc. confirmed.
So… Outlaws are people? Come the fuck on, Eclipse. Show a little goddamn consistency.
Okay, so she’s looking for information on Bal Masque. That’s fine.
Wait, so Bal Masque aren’t involved in the raids against Outlaws? … Are you fucking sure of this, SS-Eclipse?
And then there’s the whole “most information received are” bit. Good gods, it’s like a retardo extravaganza.
Why did you capitalize Commander in this context? If you wanna go that route, drop the “our”.
Watchability: Watchable.
Overall grade: C
You’ll notice I asked a lot of questions during this review. That’s because their script is a convoluted mess that was obviously never QC’d. This is the group that’s supposed to be the best for Shana? Hah, let me know when they learn how to edit. Maybe 8th has a comment on the translation accuracy, but I’ll be trying to avoid these guys for Shana.
“When a sentence indicates joint ownership in a compound construction, only the second noun is in possessive form.”
They share the same hope.
Oh for srslies? Noted.
Do we get brownie points for your imminent Mashifoni review?
Citation, please.
I buy that in a case like: “This is Bob and Sue’s hope.” But “This is Shana-chan and my hope”, no, I don’t buy it.
It’s not just a matter of what the grammar textbook says, but how people actually speak the language. And I contend that by a large majority, usage indicates putting the first noun in possessive form when the second noun is a pronoun.
I’m surprised that Doki got a higher score, does the editing weigh that much in your grading?
This is a grammar nazi blog.
It’s not really fair to call it “editing” as the thing I’m evaluating. What I’m evaluating is the script as a whole, without factoring in TL accuracy. I consider 8th’s site to be a great companion guide that makes up for my lack of Japanese skills, so if you’re one of those people who thinks you can tell anything about translation accuracy in a release, feast away:
http://8thsinfansubs.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/fall-2011-subtitle-reviews/
I think when they say Outlaws I think they refer to the different locations/buildings where Outlaw is situated. People in Outlaw are never really mentioned.
And yeah, I want to go with this group cause they did the first two seasons, but these are also two groups that have been inactive. I think the last thing SS did was Gosick.
It’s not like either was good even when they were active.
Their editor, if they have one, is retarded, but their encoders and translators are actually good.
Agreed. The editors in both groups are pretty useless even though I like both groups and I do follow most of their works, too. Most of the time, I just QC their stuff for myself if/when I’m not lazy.
Everyone’s gonna go with SS_Eclipse anyway. Unless they go really really slow.
If I gave a shit what the unwashed hordes of anitards thought, I wouldn’t have started a fansub review blog.
I’m going to watch SS-Eclipse because Shana without horribly mutilated English would just be wrong.
Actually, none of these are mistakes because Eclipse adequately captured the retardness of KugiRie’s speech. I’m amazed by their ability to translate Japanese grammatical mistakes into English ones. All hail Eclipse!
Truly the greatest of all groups.
I think you’ve inspired me to re-evaluate my anime watching priorities!
“Maybe 8th has a comment on the translation accuracy, but I’ll be trying to avoid these guys for Shana.”
Yeah, I tend to filter out awkwardness and grammar with my mind when watching subs, but when I’m actually disturbed by it, you usually rate them D- or lower lol
I should’ve caught that consistency error though… this deserves a re-watch, because I was trying to remember what happened in S2 about half the time.
As far as I can tell now though, there were only 2 or 3 “questionable translations” (other than lyrics). But then again, such things show up in every difficult show when another TL is looking at someone else’s subs.
I think the problem here is the tradeoff between details and flow. They chose details.
Regarding the lyrics, what I heard was “Shout out loud.” I think. Cause there’s so much shouting in the OP? Eh. I think there are a few misheard ones too, but it’ll all be fixed once the single is out.
A solution to all the editing woes of all fansubbers. Tell Whine-subs to fansub every single show out there.
Please review your own edits too…
I think you’re missing the point of this blog.
“disappeared”
After various thugs in a number of Latin American and other countries (many of them government thugs) gained notoriety for efficiency in making people disappear (tossing them out of helicopters at high altitude was an infamous method), those who went missing became known as the “Desaparecidos” — the “disappeared”. The English translation was used widely enough to have entered the vernacular, often in connection to organized crime.
So in fact there’s really nothing wrong, grammatically, with “… but that midget doesn’t consider him disappeared”, as such. It may be wrong in this context; I wouldn’t know.
They mean like *literally* disappeared. As in, he vanished from this plane of existence. This has nothing to do with anyone taking him away.
Outlaw is an organization, not people (that’s why when they say ‘Outlaw’, the ‘O’ is capitalized). They have several HQs (and subsequently, several outposts) around the world. Your confusion comes from not watching or remembering what happened in the 2nd season so that can’t be held against SS-Eclipse.
Also, I don’t get where you got Bal Masque not being involved in the raids against Outlaw. Alastor was asking for any new information about Bal Masque but the only thing that came in were just more reports of the same incident except in different places.
But I agree with that “disappeared” line from Margery. It’s really weird. >.>
As everyone knows, this group’s editing has always been shit, but we’re too tsundere to admit and watch them anyway…so will I. nicely done review btw
Shitty show – shitty group. I miss old SS-Eclipse (when they subbed Kanon/Clannad) soooo much. ;(
>Reviews the karaoke
You invalidate your entire blog at one go. What ever else one may think about CR, their ignoring the whole retarded kara convention is laudable. This stuff should have gone out with AVI.
They avoid it for licensing and technical reasons, not because they don’t want to have it. And if you looked around the site, you’d find that Commie tends to be one of the highest scoring groups around, despite their lack of anything beyond minimalist karaoke.
Another funny thing is if you read a bit more, I usually only say things about the karaoke like “This is fine.” And when I’m criticizing it, it’s usually because the karaoke is garish, which appears to be something you’d agree with me on.
But do whatever you need to in order to avoid the cognitive dissonance you’d get from the review. “He says SS-E is bad? But I saw their release and thought it was good. I can’t be wrong, so Dark_Sage must just be stupid because… uhh… karaoke!”
TL;DR — My opinion>ur opinion lulz
>licensing and technical issues
Let us not wander into areas in which we know shit in order to facilitate continued pontification, eh? I can claim with equal validity that since CR is capable of licensing the anime in the first place, along with at least a half-dozen or more others each season; and delivering them as subbed English simulcasts,that they at this point have the technical expertise and licensing wherewithal to supply karaoke if it was a burning need for their business. They don’t because it isn’t.
That aside, I actually find the snark in your reviews amusing, and actually don’t at all disagree with you on Eclipse’s editing, which I find awkward at times, as it was in their earlier work on SnS. I’m just suggesting that critique of editing-irrelevant triviality like the kara effects sort of ruins later needling on the purity of the comma.
Blah blah replying to a weeks old comment…
Anyway, you clearly do not know shit, because translating lyrics requires a separate license, which is why almost no CR shows have translated OP/ED lyrics. Yes, its strange, but there you go.
Hey Dark, I’m not trying to stand for SS-Eclipse or anything (well I will actually watch their version nevertheless), but at least keep in mind 8th’s translation re-review. I mean, you gave Doki a B, I think, but according to him, their translation was pure fail, going so far as to give them an F+.
You might think they sucked, but when it comes to Shana, I know they sure know what they are doing.
That’s a fair point, and I value 8th’s judgment in these matters. It’s why I always link to his site whenever people question translation accuracy.
But to be fair, a script isn’t only the domain of the translator. I think English quality overall is of utmost importance. I am also operating under the assumption that my dear visitors such as yourself are able to make your own choices based on the information you receive.
Using 8th’s site in addition to reading my reviews and weighting your own values will help you come across the best decision. Unfortunately, this means a slight bit of legwork between both sites, but I think that’s really the best option available until 8th and I combine to form 8th_Sage.
“until 8th and I combine to form 8th_Sage.” <- loled
Yeah, you are right, and I do use your site for my choices; in fact, I've doing it since you started your blog, and hell it has been helpful.
Now, I completely agree with you about the quality of the English used, even though I'm not even a native speaker, but what would be point in using a perfect English when it's not even close to what is being said by X character of Y series and you don't even get the main message to begin with? (This tends to be the case of many groups such as Doki, as I mentioned in my comment, or the atrocious deeds commited by Ayako & Co. -actually, no. Ayako knows neither. Sorry.-)
Well, there _must_ be a balance between the two, because there wouldn't be any point, as you said, with a good translation with bad English, either.
Anyway, thanks for your time and I'll be looking forward to your other reviews.
Hmm…after reading this and the review on Doki’s version, as well as all the comments, SS-Eclipse defenitely seems like the better choice to me. Will check out 8th’s review as well, to make a final decision. I’m a big follower of both SS, Eclipse, and Doki, so this really helped me to choose which group to go with. Commie is not even an option to me, as I LOATHE the way they simplify things when tranlating the show, avoiding the use of terms that are specific to the Shana-universe. Also, they localize more than the other 2 groups, and I’m the biggest hater of localization there is.
Ok, just read 8th’s review on the translation of the groups, and good god, Doki failed horribly! o_o What the hell!?